Comment by Zenst | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Zenst | Hacker News Reader

Here in the UK they are illegal (unless used on private land), which is sad as whilst they are illegal as technically a motor vehicle, needing some form of test, insurance, mot.... That has not happened and in limbo as clearly a need for some standards control etc, but an unwillingness to address that and more so a periodic fashion stopping of people upon such vehicles in an apathetic way that causes many to get one, go months, even years without knowing they are breach of the law and driven past many police/traffic wardens, then suddenly one day they stop you and caution you saying you can't. They then go back to ignoring it as a low-priority issue and the limbo of not legal as no formal way to allow one, yet readily sold and accessible.

So for the UK, such rise is randomly curtailed and no progress upon legal avenues to use them as you would intend beyond private land - which many do not own in London, an area in which such modes of transport are most suited.

[EDIT ADD] A better read upon what I said :- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48106617

I agree that it’s sad that e-scooters are banned in the UK. I take the train to work and I have ~20mins of waking either end (1 hr 20 mins per day total). An electric scooter could save me ~40 mins per day....

Why are electric scooters banned when e-bikes are fine? What if they were capped at 20mph? Below the 25 for bikes

Ebikes are technically restricted to 15mph here. The micromobility laws in the UK are a complete joke and driven by car and tier 1 manufacturers lobbying (e.g Bosch via EU).

EBikes and scooters are hands down the best solution to London's pollution issue yet people are getting fined for using them.

There is a complete lack of logic in the rulings. The reason why escooters are illegal whereas EBikes are not: throttle. An ebike with a throttle is technically not legal and in the same boat as an escooter.

This distinction is ridiculous as an ecyclist/scooterist with a throttle is safer than someone going the same speed under their own effort.

The law in the UK should be: - throttle is allowed - fine if not wearing proper safety equipment - Speed limit increased to 25 mph or current vehicle speed limit (e.g 20 near schools) - no power limit (this allows heavier people to go the same speed as others, and it allows heavier cargo-type bikes to be much more useful) - Innovate UK/BEIS grants specifically for electric micromobility projects (right now EBikes and scooters are generally barred from these grant competitions)

The speed limitation is down to the fact that they don't need insuring. Like pedal bikes the idea is that they will cause limited injury or damage to property in the event of a crash. Up things to 25mph, plus the frame/battery weight needed to add strength and safety to accelerate and brake swiftly, and suddenly you have plenty of energy to damage a car or other piece of property or hurt a human (yes I know cyclists also occasionally hurt humans).

So therefore they will need insurance, and therefore need registration. And guess what, you can ride an electric scooter or bike at the speeds you mentioned, you just need to register and insure it. It is entirely possible and people do.

What you are suggesting is a way to ride fast vehicles without the social contract of insurance and traceability.

The fact that you're suggesting insurance and registration are to be expected for any class of vehicle short of a moped is completely foreign to me.

In Switzerland you need it for bikes and they still manage

Being able to "manage" doesn't mean it's not a net negative on society.

If everyone was required to insure stuffed animals it would be cheap and perfectly "manageable" because the risk would be so low and the overhead would be spread over society but that overhead would still be pissed away on something non-productive because the net benefit to society of insuring stuffed animals is so small.

Yup, it all needs insuring here - even the 35cc autocycle I used to have needed it - but it only needed a cheap daylight mot (no lights, indicators or speedo) and tax was £15 insurance was just £50 at the time.

Being hit by a moped could easily cause life changing injuries, so I'm pleased to see them insured.

No it doesn't.

There is already voluntary insurance for (e) cycling here. Making it mandatory for some makes no sense.

Ebike is not a moped. Mopeds can go much faster than the proposed limit of 25mph.

Mandatory insurance is a band aid.

I dunno, we have voluntary insurance for kitesurfing. Why not? Insurance companies will do it pretty cheap.

There is already voluntary insurance for EBikes

Weight is not a good enough argument because you can have a fat guy on a bike (like me) going 25mph under my own power. Allowing someone like me to use a similar speed ebike via throttle allows me to use my energy on concentrating instead of pedalling.

By your logic, fat people on bikes should require insurance.

Bike lanes are the solution. Not insurance as insurance and registration only deals with something after an accident.

Why do you want to fine ebikers for not wearing what you consider to be the "proper safety equipment", even after you yourself said that an ebiker with a throttle is safer than an ordinary cyclist at the same speed?

I agree with the arguments and facts against forcing safety gear. It's in the list as a compromise under certain conditions - if any proper micromobility legislation can happen without it then great.

I wonder why someone doesn't just make a scooter that does a similar thing some electric bikes do: the motor kicks in once you start moving and 'assists' you to kick the scooter along. Perhaps that would also be illegal? It's a very strange legal situation.

Don't know about the UK but in Italy the law is that (traditional) bicycles don't need any registration and helmet, ebikes are the same but the engine must be on only if the rider pedals and shuts down at 25 km/h. If not, it's a motorbike and needs driving license, helmet, registration and insurance. After all who cares if the engine is petrol or electric.

Escooters are about to be regulated. They should be motorbikes IMHO, but the slower speed and the way people use them make them something different. After all we want less cars around and escooters are a way to that goal.

But please, ban them from sidewalks. Having something fast moving among pedestrians is dangerous. Same for bicycles (and I'm a cyclist), only bike lanes and roads. Furthermore sidewalks are full of obstacles and have way worse pavements than roads.

I doubt the police would stop you. I can't believe you won't use one if it saves that much time! Be brave!

I've only just started this commute so I'm thinking about it.... if I figure out that I can't get away with it then I'm stuck with a useless piece of kit.

Maybe not possible for you, but where I live (Germany) the obvious solution would be to get 2 cheap used bikes for both start/end legs and chain them at the station.

You could always get a non-electric kick scooter. Not quite as fast as the electric version, but faster than walking.

In the UK, more specifically London, these are completely misused. Users act largely as pedestrians on ultra busy and extremely tiny ancient streets. They have no place here.

First time ever I read that something is illegal in the UK but allowed in Germany... we made a step forward I guess!

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