Hacker News Reader

Comment by endtime | Hacker News Reader

* An excuse to subsidize the US defence industry

* Improvements to US military technology (Israel tweaks stuff and then we use their tweaks)

* Anti-terrorism training and expertise (we started caring a lot more in 2001; they've been dealing with it longer than that)

* A liberal democracy in a part of the world without any others (whether or not you value this is up to you, but many Americans do)

* Intelligence

* A lot of American tech companies have offices in Israel, which means we have an interest in its stability and prosperity

View on HN

The Liberal democracy value is highly debatable as shown by the treatment of the Arab spring as well as the strategic alliance with K.S.A.

In terms of R&D - Israel develops military research far cheaper than the US military industrial complex charges, and the results are shared back with the US. Some examples are the Iron Dome missile defense system, Predator Drones, Stuxnet, and early cell phone technology.

Stuxnet? Any references?

Here is an overview. There are many news articles and even documentaries on its origins. https://www.csoonline.com/article/3218104/what-is-stuxnet-wh...

Israel is a liberal democracy? Really, pretty sure its a Jewish state. Pretty sure the leaders of Israel would agree with me. Pretty sure this Jewish states has direct control over a couple million Muslims that are not allowed to vote.

> Really, pretty sure its a Jewish state. Pretty sure the leaders of Israel would agree with me.

Pretty sure the leaders of Israel have made it illegal, and the grounds for exclusion from the Knesset, to disagree with that statement.

But it's not accepted to point out that Israel is a distinctly illiberal state by it's overt, foundational policy.

During Israel's founding everyone who was an established resident in the territories was eligible for and offered first-class citizenship in the new state. Local Muslims and Christians who opted-in have enjoyed more prosperity and political representation over the decades than any of Israel's neighbors. Many minorities serve as leaders in the government, military, and private industry.

Israel's neighbors were the ones who encouraged Palestinian leaders to reject both citizenship and two-state solutions across multiple deal opportunities and instead opt for waging an endless violent rebellion. And when the coordinated wars were lost and the time came for offering aid, resources, and immigration opportunities - neighboring countries offered the Palestinians very little compared to the opportunities that Israel offers. They did not step up.

Yes the other arab states were morrons but there are millions of Palestinians living under Israeli control who not only lose their access to resources but also have no democratic representation at all.

The Palestinians have regular elections, not sure what you mean by no democratic representation.

They still act as morrons when they deny citizenship from the grandchildren of those who migrated from Israel 70+ years ago

Completely sure it is not "illegal, and the grounds for exclusion from the Knesset, to disagree with that statement."

> Completely sure it not "illegal, and the grounds for exclusion from the Knesset, to disagree with that statement."

“A candidates' list shall not participate in elections to the Knesset, and a person shall not be a candidate for election to the Knesset, if the objects or actions of the list or the actions of the person, expressly or by implication, include one of the following:

“1. negation of the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state;

“2. incitement to racism;

“3. support of armed struggle, by a hostile state or a terrorist organization, against the State of Israel.”

https://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/basic2_eng.htm

A party with an objective "negating the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state" is not the same as voicing disagreement. Almost half of the Knesset voted against 'Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People' basic law, and many regularly voice disagreement with this definition.

When you can arbitrarly define who is part of that democratic state and who is not, it is not democracy. The Palestinans are living under the control of the Jewish state and they have no right to vote.

That's not what being discussed in the above comments.

Actually, Muslim Israelis can and do vote. Non-citizens obviously can't, like anywhere else. The Palestinians have their own elections and government(s).

Putting aside the nuances of "Jewish state" and what that does or doesn't mean, if you go to Israel you will find a culture and a people far closer to American values than anywhere else in the region.

> you will find a culture and a people ... closer to American values than anywhere else in the region.

Perhaps true, but these days Lebanon is up in the running. They do have a weird approach to "power sharing" in government, but it's not like Israel is free from its own sort of weirdness, as you've mentioned.

By "power sharing" are you referring to Hizballah? I hope it's not too controversial to say that they don't exactly share American values.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com