Hacker News Reader

Comment by Jweb_Guru | Hacker News Reader

Rents are growing insanely fast in SF compare to anything else. The idea that landlords can't afford to make repairs because they aren't extracting maximum rent from the property is completely ludicrous on the face of it. Do you actually believe these arguments?

View on HN

That crosses into personal attack. Please don't do that on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I know a few landlords and that’s exactly what’s happening. I’m not sure why you find it hard to believe.

When you have a 3 unit building and everyone is paying less than 1/3 the market rate, it’s not worthwhile in the least for a landlord to fix up the building beyond the absolute minimum. Contractor rates have skyrocketed in SF, so even just repainting the building might cost $15k, which might represent several years of profit.

The skyrocketing rates for services are directly tied to the skyrocketing rent increases. The cost of performing these services does not change substantially from city to city, or else landlords renting to people in cities with more reasonably priced units would not be able to repair them. The big difference is the cost of living for the contractors, which gets passed to the people paying for repairs--and by far the largest component of cost of living in SF is rent. Like I said in the other comment, this is a largely self-imposed problem.

Not sure how big an impact that is. There aren't many contractors moving into the area like tech workers. Most of them are locals who have lived here for decades, so either have a rent controlled place or bought a home when prices were more reasonable.

Yup, our three floor building was 40k to repaint and fix a few custom windows (with plastic instead of custom wrapped glass) . Hadn’t been painted in over 20 years though.

You assume the rents are actually going to and staying with the landlords. In reality, landlords also have bills --

big bills (mortgages, property taxes) and bills that move [upwards] dynamically (gas, electricity, water, repairmen).

Property taxes in California are miniscule. Mortgages are only as high as they are because people assume they can extract ridiculous rents from tenants, so this is a self-made problem that should go away with sufficiently stringent rent control. The other bills do not vary significantly enough from city to city to justify the absurd rent differences between them.

So no, I'm not assuming anything of the sort. Beyond that, landlords are extremely notorious for spending much less money on repairs than they should and saddling their tenants with the bills.

Are you talking about all rents, or controlled ones? The post above wrote that rent control rules in SF limit increases to "60% of CPI, so it can’t even match inflation". If that's false, then my post doesn't apply, sure.

Rent is far above its CPI-inflated average right now, so saying that rent increases must match inflation makes no sense. The time to do that would've been long ago. But in any case I'm pretty sure rent increases are capped at much higher than inflation.

One possible scenario is if a landlord purchased property at a price factoring in assuming certain increases in rent, then they’re constrained by the debt payments.

Then they were taking a gamble by purchasing a property they couldn't actually afford, and lost. If you want risk-free investments, try bonds.

Do you think contractor costs and material costs are going down?

Do you think they are going up faster than rents in SF have?

Perhaps... I don't know. Thats why I asked.

No. They haven't.

According to https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/San-Francisco-p..., construction costs in SF rose 5% last year (2018). Also according to the SF chronicle (https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/networth/article/After-...), rents increased 3.7% year over year.

According to https://www.curbed.com/2018/12/17/18144657/construction-home..., San Francisco's high construction cost is mainly driven by the high cost of construction labor. It is disproportionately driven by labor cost when compared to all other cities.

So we have some data now, rather than just pithy statements, and I don't think it agrees with what you want.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com