Comment by TheOtherHobbes | Hacker News Reader

Comment by TheOtherHobbes | Hacker News Reader

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Mo, the facts say that Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem.

There has been absolutely no evidence provided by any source to prove institutional anti-semitism.

There is really no evidence at all that stands up to even the most basic common sense assessment.

For example - if Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's been remarkably quiet about it. In fact he has somehow managed to stay friends with various Jewish individuals and organisations in spite of his alleged burning hatred for them. Perhaps someone should let them know?

If you compare Labour's record of "anti-semitism" with the many easy-to-find examples of outright unapologetic racism of the British (and US) Right, there's no comparison.

There have however been public statements by Israeli diplomats explaining that "anti-semitism" is used in a calculated and cynical way to undermine politicians who do not support Israeli nationalism. And also evidence of Israeli influencers working to "take down" - their words - British MPs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplom...

Meanwhile the Labour MPs making the most noise about anti-semitism also happen to be the old Blairites who were horrified when Corbyn was elected leader.

As you say - let's try not to just believe everything we read on this topic, ok?

It is, sadly, far more complex than that.

It is more an issue of crony-ism and paralysis.

When corbyn's facebook profile was first linked to some AS post, a party that was functioning would have gone through all the groups he's a member of, and all past comments and removed anything that would ahve potentially been a problem.

They did not. After the first incident where he was tagged in a some post raving on about the "banking elite" or some other trope, there was at least a 6month time lapse before the press discovered his comment on the famous banking mural.

Add that to the backdrop of Livingston being a total tool, and not being censured at any speed, you begin to form a narrative.

mix in the total lack of press control, planning or indeed engagement, you get this mess. Thats without the total perversion of the discipline system (where you can be Richard Burgon, caught lying on national TV about what you said about Zionism, and not be disciplined, but admit you voted for another party and you are instantly expelled.)

All of this could have been managed, if the corbyn "brain trust" had actually bothered to think about the outside world.

Now, Let us not for a moment think that labour are alone in having a *ism problem. The conservative can't stand islam, anyone with an accent, or someone with a "whiff of the colonies". The Libdems can't abide gay marriage (which is deeply ironic)

Look, I voted corbyn the first time, because I thought he was actually competent. He however is not, has shrank back from the press, surrounded himself with posh boys who think they are working class, or dinosaurs from the 80s.

To blame this AS stuff on Isreal is just peak bullshit. If they had simply audited Corbyn's facebook pages, and kicked out the noisy unhinged twats banging on about the jews, we'd never have got here.

> The Libdems can't abide gay marriage (which is deeply ironic)

tbf even their former leader holding the infamously illiberal positions on "sin" backed gay marriage

Anti-semitism (and prejudice in general) exists on a much wider spectrum than just "burning hatred", and it is entirely possible to be friendly with members of a group that you are prejudiced against. If, perhaps, you believe that Jewish people do not integrate fully and are not "properly British", it does not prevent you from also getting on perfectly well with your Jewish next door neighbour, but you're still anti-semitic.

And just as a tip, claiming that accusations of anti-semitism are a Zionist conspiracy is somewhat self-defeating.

43% of tory party members wouldn't vote for a Muslim leader. That's endemic institutional racism. Labour party members have no such issue with Jews. The anti semitism accusations are purely about the Israel lobby throwing a fit.

That and the number of Labour members prepared to insist every Jewish person complaining about their treatment or objecting to the disciplinary body ruling holocaust denial memes OK is part of the "Israel lobby throwing a fit"...

Most of the ones whose complaints get into the media have links. E.g. members of Labour Friends of Israel like Margaret Hodge who went on a junket to Israel specifically to apologize to Isaac Herzog (he who said "race mixing between Jews and non Jews is a 'tragedy'") about the UK Labour party's "anti semitism issues".

It's frankly quite disgusting the level of Islamophobia some of these people are endorsing simply because they consider it politically expedient to throw their support behind a foreign government.

It's not that anti semitism doesn't exist at all in the Labour party. It's just vanishingly rare and literally nobody - NEVER MIND a leader - has said anything close to as disgusting as what Isaac Herzog or Boris Johnson has said.

Newspapers have also covered unambiguously factual stuff such as heads of disciplinary panels writing emails excusing the posting of holocaust denial memes from far right websites as "out of context", whilst Labour's own investigation looked at university kids being bullied - did they all have "links" too?

When your first resort upon hearing people complaining about a particular form of racism is to search for dirt on some of the more prominent members of that minority, I don't think you're in any position to lecture others on endorsing disgusting levels of racism...

Digging up memes shared by nobodies and reinterpreting them as racist (seen this a few times now) is used as a means of deflecting criticism of obvious Islamophobia by prominent leaders like Herzog. That's the worst part of this pseudo scandal: it's trumped up for and on behalf of islamophobes.

like I said: it's not like anti semitism doesn't exist in the labour party. it's just that the boy cried wolf countless times, and they cried wolf to protect racists.

this is quite apart from the time members of this community decided that they spoke for all Jews when they attacked a Holocaust survivor.

Nobody in the UK cares about "protecting" rarely-discussed foreign opposition politicians like Herzog - they're utterly irrelevant to people objecting to heads of disciplinary panels defending unambiguously racist stuff like this[1] as "out of context" and demanding their reinstatement to run for public office

[1]https://www.thejc.com/image/policy:1.461236:1521729565/.jpg?...

Nothing demonstrates the nature of racism problem the Labour Party has quite as much as arguments such as yours that objecting to stuff like this is "reinterpretation" as part of a shadowy Israeli conspiracy to protect Islamophobes

> And just as a tip, claiming that accusations of anti-semitism are a Zionist conspiracy is somewhat self-defeating.

"Israel is a country that lobbies loudly for its own benefit, as many countries do." is pretty far from a conspiracy theory. And they use the most effective tools available.

I beg you, do not conflate the existence of Israel with the current government of Israel.

Are you a member of the Labour party?

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