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Comment by dijit | Hacker News Reader

Every year I wait on bated breath at the release of a similarly compact phone to the SE. I even recently bought a new one right before they removed them from the store, so I have 2 year apple care+ for it to tide me over.

Ordinarily I would vote with my wallet, but there are no compact Android phones either.

Ironically I still own a Oneplus One which is quite old by todays standards; and I distinctly remember it being called a "Phablet" due to it's obtuse stature in comparison to its contemporaries. However it would not look out of place today, in fact in comparison to my friends iPhone Xs (not max) it hardly seems at all larger!

I would merrily slam down 1K+ EUR for a real flagship phone at a size I can actually use.

(also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.)

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I wouldn't even call the SE compact. It's just normal. It's the size that Steve Jobs said fits comfortably in your hand, and since hand sizes haven't changed, it's still true today.

It’s actually a bit bigger, the original iPhone was 3.5” screen and the iPhone 5 got taller.

I have to give up a bit of grip to get my thumb to the top corners of the screen, but it’s a lot better than anything else and I’d say worth the trade off for the extra space. Bigger than this I’m not convinced.

Wasn't that talking about the iPhone 4, before they added the extra row of icons on the 5 and SE form factor?

As is, I have no inclination to give up my SE, and if it fails I'll almost certainly pick up another off eBay or similar.

No, it was the iPhone 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99m7lebirE

I noticed the other day that the SE/5s screen is exactly the dimension of a standard business card.

David Pogue's review of the original iPhone mentioned "the HUGE 3.5-inch screen" (his emphasis).

https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time...

A thousand times this. My absolute number one requirement (after things like, um, the ability to make phone calls) is that it fit in my front-left pocket. I didn't upgrade to the last model for this reason and no other.

But I can only assume that Apple does plenty of market research on their products, so I assume people aren't checking off "the thing is too damn big" under "reasons I didn't upgrade?"

I've had the 8+ and now XS in my front left pocket just fine. Maybe buy some looser pants? =)

I can fit the larger phones (though still prefer the SE size), but my wife has demonstrated how even the SE is often spilling out of whatever pocket or other way-smaller device holding pocket is on her clothing items. Unless fashion trends change, or everyone who uses purses goes for some giant bag (and likes keeping their phones in a bag, not on their person), there is a large number of people who could use a smaller phone.

A good pocket in women's clothing is unicorn level fashion.

I however always have a bra strap. I end up storing my phone there most of the time.

Here is a great article on the size of women's and men's pockets and phones: https://pudding.cool/2018/08/pockets/

I know a lot of women who find the pocket situation in women's clothes very frustrating. They feel like they're being dictated to that showing off the line of their hip is more important than actually being able to carry anything useful.

Buy this $1000 phone, and you can always have it along if you replace your entire wardrobe!

The GameBoy solution: Just have a tailor make pants with pockets that fit the device.

> (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.)

The women around me adopted larger phones earlier, because they had purses to carry them in.

Maybe, but I have a mix, my partner has a large phone and carries a backpack(!?) with her everywhere, but her closest friend has an iPhone 5 (which she doesn't update the OS on because "it will get slower").

So in my circles it's already 50/50. But I do see iPhone 5's and SE's amongst my circles more commonly than I should given the age of the phone. I'm not 100% on why, though I often ask. And it's incredibly rare that it's a cost decision.

> …her closest friend has an iPhone 5 (which she doesn't update the OS on because "it will get slower").

If her iPhone 5 is still running iOS 6, she is correct.

> my partner has a large phone and carries a backpack(!?) with her everywhere

Bringing the SCR-300 back in style?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-300

Audio quality on that model is not great

> (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.)

PopSockets. In my neck of the woods they are almost as common as phone cases. Some men also use them.

https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/shop/popsockets-tortoise-she...

Oh wow, this is horrible.

I don't know if you're unfamiliar or not but it flattens out.

No it doesn’t. At least, it doesn’t go flat enough that it doesn’t disrupt wireless charging.

Fair, just that in the pictures there it's only shown extended or without perspective.

my wife swears by hers - makes it much more comfortable to hold while thumb-scrolling. She's not really one to put her phone in her pocket, though. If it's not in her hand or put down beside her, it's in her purse.

yes, those are also very popular with middle school students as they generally have smaller hands than men

Also, phone rings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=phone+ring&tbm=isch

I use one. I can “hang” the phone between 2 fingers and read with my hand relaxed and not having to grip the phone. I do this on a 5S

PopSocket Rings are huge in SE Asia. My theory on why is because so many women ride tandem on a motorbike and scroll through their phone while riding as a passenger. I see it all the time here in the Philippines.

https://www.uxmatters.com/mt/archives/2013/02/how-do-users-r...

People with smaller hands, regardless of gender, often use two hands. Once you're used to using two hands, there's no reason to have a smaller screen.

Except, say, using the phone on a crowded bus or train or any of the many other scenarios where it's inconvenient to use two hands.

I've no interest in anything bigger than a 7/8, myself. An XS might be borderline okay.

They use two hands because you give them a phone that's hard to use with one hand. And using two hands is not always an option.

I’m on the beach right now, comfortably reading and replying to this thread with one hand on my SE. The other is shielding my eyes from the sunset.

I type with two thumbs on a phone because I type with two hands on a keyboard. In fact, one hand is tied up on a computer - on a mouse - more often than I can't use one with my phone. It's an acceptable tradeoff.

I’ve found every iPhone since the original 3.5” form factor too hard to use with one hand. I simply can’t reach all corners one-handed with anything larger.

I’ve been out of luck since the iPhone 4, so I often go for the largest. Might as well get the best camera and battery life.

Better rigidity is a good reason to have a smaller screen.

That "study" in that article is hilarious. The author observed people in Airports, Subways, Cafes etc. and whenever someone was using a Smartphone, he took notes (so it is more of an observation that a study). This is biased in so many ways.He went to places where people usually have to kill time, and do so with their smartphone. He didn't observe all those people that had a smartphone in their pocket passing by, going for their day. I don't use my smartphone to kill time, and I restrict myself from using it when not necessary. Yes, it is a tool, I need it to check the bus schedule, buy a ticket etc. And thats it, and thats why I would be totally fine with a 5" display.

I keep having to ask this every thread, but you know you can double tap the home button and it will bring the screen half way down so you can reach easier. I have no problem using my 8 one handed, and can even use it one handed while biking

I have slightly smaller hands, and holding my old 7 one-handed was a chore - and besides, I don't want to double tap for reachability and disrupt how I'm used to doing things when I'm holding the phone with both hands.

I downgraded to an SE recently and the only thing I miss is the screen size; traded that for headphone jack, smaller form that fits my hand nicely, and a design I like better.

That sounds good, but how long will the SE receive iOS updates?

I always assumed this feature was added so apps that were optimised for the old side wouldn’t require two hands and new ui features like swipe nav would eventually phase it out.

Yet here I am years later still double tapping my home button several times a day

> can even use it one handed while biking

Please don't :(

Back in the good days, I could text one-handed blindly while biking thanks to the T9 keyboard system.

I use mine two handed while biking.

The X, XS, XR, and now 11 don't have a home button. They all rely on Face ID to unlock.

They still have the “reachability” feature, however. It’s a gesture (that I never use intentionally, but I think it’s a swipe down at the bottom of the screen).

Today I learned it's still available on those devices -- apparently it's hidden behind an option in Settings > General > Accessibility and off by default.

Using a phone in hand while biking seems to be a horrible idea unless you're riding on an unpopulated salt flats or something...

>Oneplus One which is quite old by todays standards; and I distinctly remember it being called a "Phablet" due to it's obtuse stature in comparison to its contemporaries

Wait what? This doesn't make sense. I remember getting OnePlus as well (bought it for a friend in Europe) and the screen size was pretty mainstream at that point. It had 5.46" size. It got released the same year Apple released 6+ which had bigger screen, and in US it doesn't get more mainstream than that. In no particular order a list of other pretty successful smartphones released in 2014:

- Galaxy Note 4 (5.7")

- Google Nexus 6 (6")

- HTC One (M8)(5")

- LG G3 (5.5")

- Droid Turbo (5.2")

Where do you live?

Er, all of your examples except maybe the HTC and the Droid Turbo and the iPhone are labelled Phablets (and Apple only because they seem to be immune to the label); the Galaxy Note series is original phablet line and the OnePlus One was bigger than the contemporary iteration of that line.

Your list reinforces the point you are using it to argue against.

>Galaxy Note series is original phablet line and the OnePlus One was bigger than the contemporary iteration of that line.

No it wasn't, check the specs. My point is at the point when majority of phones were released in "phablet" sizes no one considered them to be odd anymore. 3 years earlier, perhaps but not in 2014. I remember getting zero strange looks walking around with 6 plus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_series

> The Samsung Galaxy Note series is a series of high-end Android-based _phablets_ and tablets developed and marketed by Samsung Electronics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnePlus_One

>Type: _Phablet_

I understand that when OnePlus One was launched it was in the "Phablet" category. My point is I don't recall anyone using that label on mine (or on my IPhone 6+) because larger phones were becoming a lot more mainstream at that point.

Then we're making the same point.

The overton window has shifted so much that things that used to look ridiculous and had to be labelled as a portmanteau look ordinary today.

I had an HTC One M8 and recall the reviews saying it "verged on being a phablet".

Android is equally disappointing.

There has never been a successor to the Nexus 4.

I mean, the Nexus 5 and 5X weren't /that/ much larger than the 4.

But they were larger

The best phone form factor ever made. I loved my N4.

I liked the Nexus 4 form factor as well. I've bounced around to larger phones, including the Nexus 6, Pixel and Pixel 2... but I recently went back to a Sony device (XZ1 compact) because it:

(1) Has a headphone jack

(2) Has the same processor as my Pixel 2

(3) Is actually a usable size (roughly the same as the Nexus 4)

I have giant hands and large pockets available but will always prefer a smaller phone.

Nexus 4 was my favorite phone - beautiful form factor, nice screen, worked well.

The best designed Android phone was the Moto X 2013. Perfect design, but a terrible camera.

>there are no compact Android phones either

On Samsung Galaxy S6 and later models, one can tap the home button three times to shrink the screen so that everything can be reached with one thumb. It's called "one-handed mode". I can't say I've used it very often, but when I need it, it's there.

iPhone has this too if you lightly tap on the home button.

For the iPhone X it's also there: https://mashable.com/2017/10/31/how-to-use-iphone-x-reachabi...

Not exactly convenient though.

At this point why not just give people a real overlapping window manager?

It wouldn't make much sense on a screen that small.

Samsung does, at least on my S8

S7 too. Maybe earlier models.

My LG G7 has a two window mode (you can slide the division between the two windows up and down). Also there are now many apps that can run in small floating windows, most notably video players.

> (also, I wonder how women get on, since generally they have smaller hands than men.)

Women actually have it better since they always have their purses to put their phones on.

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