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TomOfTTB

Pretty much what everyone expected. The same phone on Verizon's CDMA network. The only a few things I noted were...

1. You can use it as a WiFi Hotspot

2. Redesigned antenna (obviously)

3. Verzion isn't getting the 3GS (which is probably why AT&T was so quick to drop it to $49)

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Incoming calls will interrupt data activity. (Will interrupt hotspot)

ArsTechnica has an excellent live blog going of it. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/01/liveblog-of-veri...

  >Incoming calls will interrupt data activity. (Will interrupt hotspot)

Wow, this reminds me of being on dial-up in the 1990s.

The CDMA Development Group announced provisions for SVDO, or Simultaneous 1x Voice and EV-DO Data in 2009, but there hasn't been much news on it since.

My guess is that Verizon will just continue upgrading its network for LTE instead of making this interim upgrade.

They stated at CES that they'll bring simultaneous voice and data; I'm assuming that's SVDO but perhaps they're doing it some other way.

From Q&A at CES:

"Q: What about simultaneous voice and data? A: Some devices will. Q: Just some devices, not all? A: Not ready to comment at this point."

> Incoming calls will interrupt data activity.

I don't see why people make a big deal out of this. How often do you really need to talk AND use data at the same time? I've never, ever, ever, ever, ever had to or even had the inclination that I wished I could. I think it's one of those features that sounds cool, but in reality no one really uses.

Maybe you're using the hotspot (downloading something, streaming, skype) and you get a call.

Actually it's one limitation about CDMA that I hate. I would love to use one of the reverse lookup apps to get details about unknown callers but I can't because the operation of receiving the call means it can't simultaneously do the lookup.

I also hate having some sync operation get stopped because I get a call.

It's more annoying than you think but not a total deal breaker.

I've often gone through the steps of saying "hold on" while on a call and launching Safari, Mail or some other app to check something that was being discussed (e.g. "Did you get my email?" "Not yet, I'll check now").

It'd be worse if you're using it as a hotspot and you're sharing the hotspot with other people.

It's not essential, but it's not useless either.

Let's say you have 5 people connected to your phone's wireless hotspot and a call comes, everyone lose their connectivity

I use it all the time. I'll often be on the phone (using a headset) and pull up information online, or send out an e-mail to someone on the con-call, or pull up a new document in DropBox, or.....

Add in using it a Wifi hotspot, and getting your VPN connection/download/SSH session/whatever interrupted every time your phone rings would be REALLY annoying.

it doesn't drop internet when it rings, it drops when you answer. right?

I routinely send my wife pictures* (via MMS or e-mail) while we're talking on the phone.

*Not what you think... usually pictures of the cat or what I'm cooking.

um... I do this too!

I work out of coffeeshops occasionally and use my Nexus One as a wifi hotspot to avoid unencrypted public networks (which is free for me on T-Mobile by the way). Its awfully nice to be able to take a phone call and hold on to the data connection so that I can continue working while on the call if need be.

For myself quite often. My boss calls me and lets me know that 'x' server is having 'y' issue. I'm on my phone's wifi hotspot so I'll log into the server and answer questions while we talk over what is going on.

I needed it recently--I was driving around downtown LA while talking to a friend and trying to use Google Maps (he was trying to guide me somewhere and I was having trouble finding it). In that case I happened to have spotty coverage and my phone switched to edge and so I couldn't do it and that was adding to my frustration.

Also talking on the phone and needing to look up a reference happens surprisingly often. It's really nice to have data available while talking.

Perhaps the skype announcement that was floating around will ameliorate that somehow.

love this:

  #Ironically, ATT service here at the Time Warner Center   
  for a Verizon event is excellent.
  by jtimmer at 1/11/2011 4:30:14 PM11:30 AM

Could someone please explain how this hotspot feature usually works for smartphones? I'm having a discussion with a friend about this, but we're going nowhere since I don't own a smartphone and thus I'm not really sure what's the default here and how this iPhone does things differently.

[edit] what I expect is this: if I'm connected to a wifi hotspot to browse the Internet and I receive a telephone call, I should not drop the connection to the hotspot (am I wrong in understanding that this is NOT what this iPhone does?).

"You can use it as a WiFi Hotspot" means that you can use the phone to broadcast a WiFi signal for nearby computers/devices to use to access the Internet.

The phone acts as a WiFi access point, using the cellular network to relay the devices connected to it to the Internet.

Yeah, this is ok, but how does this iPhone behave differently than the usual here? Do the other phones (when acting as hotspot) keep broadcasting the WiFi signal when receiving data over the cellular network?

This is basically what is called "tethering", using the 3G internet connection of the phone for other devices (such as your laptop), except that the "tether" is no a physical connection but just a wifi connection. In other words, you put your phone into this mode and you can connect to it through wifi and have wireless internet anywhere you have 3G coverage. AT&T does not offer the same service.

AT&T does not offer the same service.

Of course, it's worth noting that tethering isn't a "service" that carriers have to build or support. It's an inherent capability of a sufficiently advanced computing device that has access to two networks simultaneously. But in a textbook case of non-neutrality, AT&T (and others) prevent you from using that capability unless you pay them to remove the entirely artificial restriction.

Quite so. AT&T restricts your ability to tether, because there are still unlimited data plans and they don't want people to fully take advantage of those plans.

It's a limitation to CDMA, so if the same feature were allowed by AT&T you wouldn't have a service interruption due to voice usage (GSM can do voice and data simultaneously).

Well, you can demonstrate this already either with normal Bluetooth tethering or with MyWi after jailbreaking.

The hotspot feature turns the phone into a wireless router where the connection to the internet is provided through the phone's data connection. I don't think an incoming phone call would cause the wifi network to disassociate from any devices, but connected devices wouldn't be able to access the internet. This would be akin to disconnecting your modem from your home wireless router. Devices can still access the network but can't reach the internet.

does this apply to SMS too? if the phone gets an incoming text, will it disconnect the internet?

No, SMS is different, you can receive a text during a phone call, or during a data session.

I wonder how AT&T will respond to the hotspot feature. Here's hoping they relax a bit on tethering plans.

Agreed, but they've got some serious time on their side. For me (and everyone else who just picked up the 4), about a year and a half.

For those who are locked in on contract, sure, but I wonder how AT&T's tethering terms versus Verizon's are going to affect AT&T's ability to attract new customers.

Is Verizon's CDMA network technically compatible with anywhere else in the world? (e.g. so that you can us the same phone in U.S and elsewhere, provided it is not locked)

Specifically, which frequency band does U.S. CDMA use?

No I don't think so. Everwhere else on the world is GSM. That confused me when I first read about USA mobile phones, I wondered what this CDMA thing was.

Worldwide CDMA coverage: http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/

Looking at their map, it's highly misleading, implying there's CDMA 3G coverage in a bunch of places where there is no, or minimal coverage. (They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes?)

CDMA2000 aka EV-DO isn't compatible with W-CDMA, aka UMTS -- the 3G standard used just about everywhere -- and has about 10% of the market worldwide:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of...

Here's a list of CDMA2000 operators. You'll notice a lot in the Americas, especially the USA, plus others scattered elsewhere:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2...

And here's the giant table of UMTS (aka W-CDMA) operators worldwide:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_...

If you're American and don't have a passport, then by all means get a Verizon iPhone 4. But if you expect to travel widely it'd be much more sensible to get a GSM/UMTS iPhone 4, even if it means putting up with AT&T at home. (More sensibly, buy an unlocked one from Apple on a trip to, say, the UK or Ireland: claim back the VAT and buy a micro-SIM on the network of your choice and you're golden.)

> They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes?

I would either tell the truth or quit the job. I take my professional code very seriously.

Very misleading. It highlights Ireland as a CDMA country (there's a trial apparently) However if you had a CDMA mobile phone, it won't work in Ireland.

There are GSM networks in the rest of the world yes, but that is not the only technology outside the US. There are CDMA networks in other countries as well. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies#Other_Regi...

While it seems not technically right, e.g. CDMA seems to be used here and there around the world, I am reassured in my opinion that if you intend to use your cell phone/modem not exclusively on your home operator's network, you'd better stick to GSM.

Thanks for your links, retroafroman and dboyd! That's exactly what I needed.

No. CDMA is used also outside the US.

* KDDI, Japan's #2 carrier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDDI (20-21M users)

* China Telecom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Telecom (216M users)

Also others in India too. For instance.

Also, Iraq. Thanks, Darrell Issa!

It's on a different frequency and uses a different communication protocol.

There are a few Verizon phones that are "world phones" meaning they can operate on CDMA and GSM, so you can take them out of the country with you.

I've brought my CDMA phone with me a few times and more or less got by on wifi for data needs (I wasn't going to pay the ridiculous international call fees anyway, last time I did that with my iPhone a 20 minutes of calltime and a few emails cost me over $150!)

There are large CDMA networks in China, not sure whether or not they're compatible with Verizon's (though I would guess they are).

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but Verizon does offer international roaming in a few places (Mexico, etc.). It's nowhere near as good as AT&T's international roaming, but, as other commenters have posted, GSM is far more prevalent outside the US than CDMA.

US based sprint uses CDMA.

And how does that work with the switch to LTE? It seems that AT&T eventually wants to invest in LTE infrastructure, too (but HSDPA can offer at least nearly the speed Verizon’s LTE has to offer at the moment so I don’t think they need to hurry). Will the US converge on one standard? (At least in the sense that building a phone that works both with AT&T and Verizon gets easier?)

It also seems like Verizon really needs to hurry up with LTE (I don’t even know whether you should call it 4G if HSDPA can be nearly as fast) because CDMA doesn’t go very fast. AT&T doesn’t have that same speed gap because they are using UTMS which can go much faster. (The current iPhone is limited to 7.2 Mbps, though.)

"Locking" doesn't mean the same thing it does for GSM phones; CDMA phones have a builtin ID which is registered with the network, and there's no SIM card or equivalent to swap out to change that ID.

Sprint and Verizon both use the same CDMA frequencies in the US, and Sprint and Verizon phones roam on each other's networks. But there's no button on your Sprint phone to push to make it a Verizon phone, or vice versa. Sometimes you can get the carrier to do it for you -- the new carrier can choose to activate your existing phone on their network. At least I remember stories of people doing that; I never tried it so can't speak from personal experience.

There is SIM Card equivalent for CDMA technology called R-UIM (Removable User Identity Module). It's commonly used by any CDMA phone outside the US.

I wonder if this CDMA iPhone come with R-UIM card or it have build in ID which register with the network?

Independently of the inability to roam in GSM 2G, you may still be able to roam on foreign 3G networks. For 3G, CDMA seems to be ubiquitous, it's mainly a question of at least one of the frequency bands supported by the phone being used in the destination country.

I've been thinking of dropping my AT&T iPhone 4 for a Droid Bionic on Verizon later this year. Given that, I'm really hoping they'll be charging extra for the wifi hotspot feature like they do with Android, or if they're not, making it free for Android users as well.

(edit: To be clear, the liveblogs I've glanced at haven't specifically said if it will be free or not, and Verizon apparently won't talk about plan pricing...)

I don’t really understand why you hope that they will charge iPhone users for the hotspot feature. That seems wholly unrelated to your purchasing decision.

because it's not fa-airrrr

    > I'm really hoping they'll be charging extra for the wifi hotspot 
    > feature like they do with Android

If they don't end up charging extra, I'll be happy to charge you for it so that you're not disappointed.

> I'm really hoping they'll be charging extra for the wifi hotspot feature like they do with Android, or if they're not, making it free for Android users as well.

Meh, root your phone like every other hacker and you can get free tethering on Android as well. I use it all the time with my Droid.

Send me a message if you end up selling your iPhone, I'd be willing to take it off your hands. (username at gmail)

I wonder how much they'll charge for the mobile hotspot feature? Earlier last year, when they were desperately trying to unload Palm Pres, they were throwing that capability in for free... but I somehow doubt that that will be the case with the iPhone. But I'd love to be proven wrong, as it's been an incredibly useful feature.

... with a puzzling lack of pricing information about hotspot usage, or even basic data.

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