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Comment by Gatsky | Hacker News Reader

Yes ok, it’s a bad batch of juice (probably), it won’t effect most vapers (probably), better regulation will solve the problem (maybe). But I have got to ask... was all the vaping done thus far and into the future worth even one person dying needlessly?

It’s cigarettes all over again. Who benefits except the people selling it? Yes freedom, yes whatabout other pointless harmful things in the world, but vaping has already caused more harm than we should accept, I think.

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>...was all the vaping done thus far and into the future worth even one person dying needlessly?

This is a reduction to absurdity that I can't quite grasp: People die of all sorts of maladies every year and a single person dying from vaping is your apex priority because, "it could've been prevented by banning vaping"?

This almost seems like a variation of the "won't someone think of the children" argument.

To whit: What of all of the vehicular deaths every year? Or deaths via trains or planes? Should we just ban all life because it will result in death at an astounding success rate of 100%?

I am not on anyone's side here, but didn't you just answer a logical fallacy with another? Namely whataboutism?

Reductio ad absurdum is similar to whataboutism, but it's not the same. Whataboutism is more like an abrupt detour off into a different issue to try to confuse the conversation or transform the topic of discussion into a referendum on the personal morals/motivations of the involved parties. The appeal to extremes does have to ask the question "what about x" but it's relevant because it's done to demonstrate the logical consequences of the other person's line of argument. It's not trying to deflect, it's getting to the heart of the issue.

> was all the vaping done thus far and into the future worth even one person dying needlessly?

If it's saved significantly more than that, there's a decent argument that "yes it might have been".

But that's specifically for nicotine e-cigs, in my opinion. They have a clear harm reduction purpose; slightly less clear when talking about THC carts, I think? Thought I'm likely incorrect about my assumptions on that.

Have you ever done anything you enjoyed, even though it entailed greater than literally zero chance of your death? Like showering? Or walking down the street?

You see, for people who enjoy vaping, it's sort of like that.

The people formerly smoking cigarettes that switched have likely benefited quite a bit, or will.

You say, “yes freedom,” as if freedom is a valueless proposition if people use it to do things you consider pointless.

Something like 400,000 people a year die in the US due to smoking. Vaping is mostly a substitute for smoking. But even if millions of non-smokers start vaping, it's a net positive.

Not when it turns out vaping is even more deadly than smoking.

If vaping is that deadly then fog machines should be killing people all over the place. It's the same technology.

The only time vaping causes more harm than smoking is when people use dangerous solvents (eg: not propylene glycol) or when batteries explode.

Vaping is not more deadly than smoking cigarettes.

We'll see.

Are you willing to bet money on that? I'm willing to bet any amount up to 1 BTC (≈10,000 USD) that in the next decade, there will not be a year in which the CDC attributes more deaths to vaping than smoking. I'm also willing to bet on similar statements that would be true if vaping is more harmful than smoking.

If you want, we can find a neutral arbiter to determine the outcome of our predictions, though they may want a percentage of the stakes.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/11/health/vaping-lung-illnes...

> Eventually, Adam said that he went from vaping over-the-counter e-liquids to vaping THC or tetrahydrocannabinol, which is the main psychoactive component of marijuana. Adam would get the THC from "a friend" or dealer. Over time, Adam said that he developed shivers and couldn't control them. Then, the vomiting began.

A very small number of people are getting sick and dying because they're vaping black market THC cartridges. Most vapers are doing nicotine, and they're buying Juuls and other brand name products that are much safer than smoking.

I ask again: Are you willing to bet money that the CDC will attribute more deaths to vaping than smoking (or some similar statement that would be true if vaping was deadlier than smoking)? If you're so sure you're right, why don't you take my money?

Do you not understand how deadly cigarettes are?

~34 million people smoke cigarettes in the US. US deaths from smoking is ~500k/yr.

Meanwhile, over 10 million vape in the US. US deaths from vaping is... only 5 people since vaping existed? And those deaths are likely from vaping juice that contains oils, rather than standard vape juice.

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