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Comment by kyriakos | Hacker News Reader

Is it worse than regular smoking? or how about the new IQOS type?

Obviously not smoking is the best option but assuming smokers will continue smoking even knowing the risks - which is the case unfortunately for a big majority, i believe the best thing to do is give them a way to get their fix that poses the smallest risk.

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As others have said this "outbreak" is likely due to dodgy thc capsules so doesn't impact anyone but a very niche group

Surely there are several ways to deliver nicotine that are far safer than electronic cigarettes. There is mounting evidence that these are worse than tobacco.

Disclaimer: I'm Swedish so I guess you could say I'm culturally biased, but I have no economic interest in this.

You can always try "snus". Snuff has a bad rep in the US because of the association with chewing tobacco and old westerns, but snus in a pouch under your lip is actually very hygienic, easily disposable, practically invisible and obviously spares your lungs, while still giving you a nicotine buzz.

Obviously no way of consuming nicotine is risk free, but I use it every now and then and I enjoy it, especially with beer or coffee.

I think Swedish Match is attempting to market snus in the US under the "General" brand[1], might be worth checking out if you want to try an alternate way of consuming tobacco.

[1]: https://www.generalsnus.com

A lot of hockey players here in Canada use snus and even after learning how to do it properly it still makes me want to vomit. Plus the idea of a 'spit bottle' is even more anti-social than massive vape clouds (which are entirely unnecessary and becoming taboo).

Snus you do not spit

There's no such thing as a "spit bottle" required for "proper" usage of snus. Perhaps if you are using snus that isn't portioned in bags and you wish to keep it in for a long time, you'll need to spit at some point -- but the vast majority of people do use portioned snus, and it is normally discarded before it starts running in a dedicated part of the box you took it from.[1]

[1]: https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd13o5qkgojw...

Strange, I wonder why all the hockey players I know used one. I'll ask them next time, I'm not much an expert on the subject. But I do know one gets his from Europe.

> I wonder why all the hockey players I know used one.

My guess would be that they did not use "portioned" snus. It's a bit of a macho thing, so the prevalence of the loose kind that you have to bake into a ball yourself and get your hands dirty is much higher among professional athletes, car mechanics and the like, while most regular consumers prefer the portioned bags. If you're interested in the statistics, about 77% prefer portioned snus.[1]

I believe one of the major reasons that people prefer to take their snus "straight" is because it's stronger, but the whole thing about dirtying your hands, making a mess when discarding it, going around spitting etc. creates some obvious issues for regular office workers or other consumer groups with similar opinions.

[1]: https://news.cision.com/se/nordic-snus/r/hur-snusar-svenskar...

It’s my impression snuff and chewing tobacco beside being a bit gross (spittoons) it causes mouth cancer in some fraction of users.

It did prior to the early 2000's, I've read (but cant find the source) that they changed the manufacture to reduce the number of nitrotessamines to be in the same range as the swedish style.

I think you're referring to nitrosamines, and according to Robert Nilsson who is a professor at Stockholm University, there is "no proof of correlation between snus and cancer"[1] and indeed in 2002, the warning labels had to be changed,[2] and today "only" reads (my translation): "This tobacco product harms your health and is addictive", which is a far cry from the EU mandated warning on cigarettes that goes more like "Smoking kills", with some variants.

[1]: https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2012/05/26/snus-bor-in...

[2]: https://www.snusbolaget.se/snusjournalen/snus-och-halsa-del-...

I'm sure that the risk of cancer isn't negligible, but again, spitting is not something that users of portioned snus do, the bags are normally discarded way before they turn runny.

What is the effect on your teeth though? How would you deal with it?

I haven't personally noticed any effect, but I'm sure it does affect your teeth in a similar way to drinking tea and coffee in the long run. Beyond that, it creates temporary irritation on your gums (temporary meaning it goes away if you stop and doesn't damage your gums permanently), and over a long period of time it can cause a permanent effect of receding your gum line, which of course isn't great. I'm no authority on how serious these effects are, how common they are etc. but I would imagine that they would require some pretty heavy usage under a long period of time, and that "loose" (un-portioned) snus probably affects your gums much harder than the more popular portioned variant in small bags, since the un-portioned variant is pure tobacco with no material in between it and your gums.

(And, on the topic, I am quite sure that in addition to the comparably low health risks of snus in contrast to e/cigarettes, the trust in the origin and the quality of the raw material used is rightfully so higher than that of the materials used in after market vape juice.)

Thanks, I did not know snus was used in those bags. I always thought it was akin to what I know as "pruimtabak" [1]. I've since learned (via Wikipedia) that there is original snus or "lössnus" and "Portionssnus" with "White portion" being a variant. It makes a lot of sense now.

[1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruimtabak

>There is mounting evidence that these are worse than tobacco.

No there isn't. The evidence overwhelmingly indicates that e-cigarettes are far, far safer than any form of tobacco.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e-cigarettes-an-e...

That article is from 2015. The exotic pneumonias and other respiratory diseases that have sickened hundreds and killed 10s have been linked to electronic cigarettes only in the past few months. Tobacco, bad as it is, does not cause these catastrophic outcomes within just months of beginning habitual use. And evidence more recent than 2015 shows that electronic cigarettes are not very effective in weaning people away from tobacco. We now know, from longer term studies, that many of these people return to cigarettes. These products have not been around very long and 2015 is ancient history. I stand by my comment.

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