Cases of Vaping-Related Lung Illness Surge, Health Officials Say
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
Neem oil is something that was cleared for fruits and vegetables, something that you wash and eat. But I think it would be poisonous when you inhale it.
I mean, remember the salmonella tomato scare in 2008? Restaurants around the country stopped putting tomatoes on their food, and grocery stores pulled all tomatoes from the shelves, until the issue was isolated and resolved.
So while I do think it's quite the overreaction to tell everyone to stop using any and all vaping products, particularly people who are continuing to vape juices that have been used for years without issue, it's an understandable overreaction.
In the end, they are going to find the issue, and it won't have anything to do with traditional e-cig alternatives to tobacco. But I suspect there will be legislative backlash that will be vastly disproportionate to the issue. They will punish innocent retailers, make e-cigs outrageously expensive by over-regulation, and discourage a large number of people from a product that really is substantially safer than the tobacco they are leaving behind.
You shouldn't vape and you shouldn't smoke, but plenty of people do unhealthy things for reasons that are difficult to explain and/or understand.
So, is this a "finger wagging" recommendation, or is there a tangible reason to avoid vaping?
If this follows a parallel path though, wouldn't this mean that vaping levels will basically be back to normal shortly after the cause is discovered? A temporary cessation of vaping until we can find and eliminate the cause of these health problems doesn't strike me as a huge issue.
Of course some people told me that vaping was a "trash" thing to do, but thankfully I don't care and recognize that my needs are valid regardless of peoples' judgements!
Problem is kids do stupid things and who has the right to decide for me if I get to do something disgusting?
Bigger issue for me is the talk of socialized healthcare where I’d have to pay the healthcare bills for people who smoke. Why should I have to pay for their bad habit?
Got me off of cigarettes. Seems like a pretty huge benefit to me.
My point is that your approach helps no one and has failed time and time again in the past. Remember D.A.R.E? How about abstinence health ed. programs? "Just say no" doesn't work. People like their vices. When a healthier alternative comes along it's a good thing.
Gum/patches don't work for me and have a very low success rate in general. Part of my addiction is the act of smoking. I've been vaping for eight years and it's the only thing that has worked.
That's pure speculation on your part.
All of them are vaping related, but not all necessary THC related:
>Many patients report using e-cigarette products with liquids that contain cannabinoid products
The might be under-reporting due to THC legality fear. Or it may not be. Who knows?
>at a greater risk for a litany of awful illnesses.
Long term maybe. But whatever this is it seems to kill pretty fast.
https://reason.com/2019/04/10/the-percentage-of-americans-wh...
What kind? Accurate? Is it not true that these cases are increasing and deaths have happened in close succession? A lot of these vape cartridges are being made with untested adulterants or solvents that we have no idea about, especially black market cartridges and counterfeits from other countries. Until there's more testing and regulation around what is actually in these things, they are in fact more dangerous than smoking in my opinion. Smoking causes all kinds of issues over the long term, but these vape cartridges are causing serious acute illnesses.
Maybe more dangerous is the wrong word. Vaping, at this point, is way more _risky_ than smoking, given the acute possibilities.
I was a smoker for almost ten years before I quit.
After I quit my doctor ran some basic tests and blood work, etc. He told me that within 4-5 years my lungs would be as if I’d never smoked and that would also improve with regular exercise. That was about 4 years ago and I don’t feel the former construction in my lungs as I did back then. (Though I think I might have been a better singer, but there’s something to be said for warming up...)
Anyway even after ten years of smoking and finally quitting my risk of any disease is extremely low—but only because I quit completely.
The surge in popularity of vaping surely would draw in some less scrupulous device and cartridge manufacturers.
Edit: Thought I should add a point of clarity here that I wouldn’t recommend cigarette smoking instead! Better off just to take a week away from work and hold up in bed if you’ve had a hard time kicking it. It’s those first couple of days that are the very worst.
no, the type that omits relevant information in order to scare people. nearly every article I've seen talking about the dangers of vaping has failed to mention flaws in the studies that they cite, and there's never a follow-up. numerous articles were written citing a study that burned liquid at incredibly high temperatures. A person would never use a vape that way.
In this case, we know that these people were vaping, but we have no cause. Another article came out today that found high amounts of vitamin e in THC oils these people were vaping[1]. I couldn't find a mention of that in the article.
There are an estimated 10 million people who vape in this country. We have a tiny, tiny fraction who have demonstrable health issues related to it. in those cases it has almost always been a manufacturing issue, not an issue with vaping in general. I'm not trying to say it's perfectly safe, obviously that is unlikely to be the case, but cigarettes are absolutely going to kill you.
[1]: https://beta.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminan...
"If you do it right, it's harmless." Problem is, people are doing it wrong. They do a lot of things wrong, and reporting on that is quite valid. People use guns wrong, but that doesn't mean there's anything improper about reporting on people being shot.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/heal...
I do think vaping is probably better than smoking, but it is probably ideal not to be addicted to nicotine. It is much more dangerous to your long term health than either THC or alcohol (assuming you’re not an alcoholic).
Best to lay off vaping weed and nicotine at the same time for now. That seems to be the common thread in these cases.
As someone who only vapes weed, I have to say I’m not too worried.
Edit:
Corrected brain fart of saying “weed and marijuana” instead of “weed and nicotine”.
vaping weed and marijuana at the same time
I wonder if it's an ingredient that's used to make it taste better - since the article posted an item of the "fun" flavored vape liquid.
I don't think we should outright ban these devices like the one doctor mentioned in the article. Find out what specifically is causing the problem with lung deterioration and ban that ingredient from the mixture (Probably vitamin E acetate according to the article). Seems fairly simple.
Cannabis smoke, like any smoke generated from combustion of plant matter, contains a number of carcinogenic compounds. Smoking cannabis does not cure cancer. Quite the opposite.
Your position that breathing air is unhealthy without cannabis is quite interesting. I'd love to see some of the studies you're talking about. I have never seen a study concluding that smoke inhalation is a good thing.
Those oil based vapes just seem nasty. Smaller vaporizer though, I guess.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20855683
TLDR: Vaporizer cartridges contain fillers. The fillers are apparently very expensive. The theory is people in the industry are trying to boost profits by using cheaper (never tested on humans) fillers that are potentially damaging to health. Whether or not this is true, I don't know, but it makes for an interesting theory.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/heal...
At best same treatment as cigarette
All issues have come from illegal products. No brands are mentioned. Clearly, contamination is the issue. It is irresponsible to blame "vaping" especially considering that the alternative is "smoking" -- which won't ever result in a newspaper article about sickness/death because it is so common.
About 10 people a day die in swimming pools. But 4 total deaths ever is an epidemic?
> the branch of medicine which deals with the incidence, distribution, and possible control of diseases and other factors relating to health.
disease
> a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.
Is this not a disease? One of which the actual cause is still unknown and symptoms hitherto unseen? I guess it could still ultimately be the result of physical injury to the lungs, but it still seems up in the air. You may still be right, but I don't think it's as simple as "CDC handles epidemiology".
This doesn't sound like that:
>The Los Angeles County Department of Public Health was investigating a possible fifth death, saying on Friday afternoon that the fatality was “associated with the use of e-cigarettes, also known as vaping.”
I'm assuming e-cigarettes are the legitimate sort.
Here are pictures of brands new york has flagged: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nysdoh/sets/72157710703391248/
And according to this article: https://beta.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/05/contaminan... a man died after using a product purchased from a dispensary:
a middle-aged adult who died in late July of a severe respiratory illness had used an e-cigarette containing marijuana oil purchased from a legal dispensary. It’s the second death linked to vaping nationwide and the first to be linked to a product bought at a store. Pulmonary illnesses associated with b...
The second point still stands.
"They act like a cannabis company, but they actually don’t exist. They’re in the packaging industry," ... "These are just people filling cartridges as 'Dank Vapes.' It's not a singular facility. It's just people in their garages filling them and selling them.”
>Laboratory test results showed very high levels of vitamin E acetate in nearly all cannabis-containing samples analyzed by the Wadsworth Center as part of this investigation. At least one vitamin E acetate containing vape product has been linked to each patient who submitted a product for testing. Vitamin E acetate is not an approved additive for New York State Medical Marijuana Program-authorized vape products and was not seen in the nicotine-based products that were tested.
"Gas-phase benzene was not found above blank levels in any of the JUULTM samples for any of the four flavors. "
They detected benzene with two other tank-style vaporizers and seems benzene production is strongly correlated with wattage.
False dichotomy. Not consuming nicotine is also an alternative.
I'd guess patches as the best, because the slow release breaks a lot of the fun of the addiction cycle. Apparently though, it's best to use both patches and one other NRT - https://www.cochrane.org/CD013308/TOBACCO_what-best-way-use-...
Vaping is just too much like smoking. It's basically the same habit, it's got the same quick hit, you'll have very similar rituals (leave your desk, go for a vape break, "light up", etc).
There's also the community factor. There's no nicotine patch community, but there's a vaping community. Maybe the vaping community was originally all people trying to quit cigarettes, but now it's also a gateway to people getting into smoking.
Is it irresponsible to criticize OxyContin because an alternative like fentanyl is even more dangerous?
Vaping might be safer than smoking, but it isn't necessarily safe. Vaping can and often is used by smokers to handle their nicotine addiction. That doesn't mean we should ignore that vaping can of often is used by people who aren't yet addicted to nicotine, namely teenagers. In those cases it can lead to nicotine addiction and eventual smoking.
I don't want to completely vilify vaping, but the whole idea that we should be fine with it because it is "safer" is completely flawed.
And that's where the 10 people per day dying in swimming pools seems relevant to bring up. Or the fact that 67% of smokers die from smoking, with hundreds of thousands of deaths per year. Or the fact that a majority of Americans believe that vaping is more harmful than smoking. https://reason.com/2019/04/10/the-percentage-of-americans-wh...
That's weird, right?
Yes partially, but it should also be proportional to the public's knowledge too. That is why some products are recalled after a single accident. It isn't that people are destined to die. The problem is instead when people assume the level of risk is low when it is actually moderate. That can be more dangerous than a riskier option in which everyone knows it is risky. For example, a swimming pool is unquestionably more dangerous than a trampoline. However most parents know a swimming pool is dangerous and won't let their kids swim unsupervised. They might not be aware of the dangers of trampolines. That asymmetry in the knowledge of the risks might end up making the trampoline more likely to result in an accident.
The general public thinks vaping is safer than it is. The general public is already very well aware how dangerous smoking is. I therefore think it is perfectly reasonable to be louder in denouncing vaping, especially considering this recent news seems to show it is even riskier than initially thought.
Except that "fentanyl has a higher therapeutic index than morphine (400 vs 70)". Meaning that the difference between a therapeutic dose and lethal dose is much bigger with fentanyl (ie: safer!).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312206/
The main issue with fentanyl is that it's potent. Which our supply-driven interdiction system has favoured the movement toward.
But so potent that intermediaries can't mix it up right outside of a proper lab.
Fentanyl, absolutely is safer than many other popular pharmaceutical opiates but only when the dosing is done competently and accurately (even someone abusing opiates is safer using fentanyl IFF they are capable of knowing and distributing their desired dose)
Properly micronized and triturated, synthetic H made with fentanyl would be very safe stuff. Unless you could afford enough to OD yourself, which you might now be able to at the prices it could be sold at.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/09/05/vaping...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/heal...
For a long time all they had was "it looks like smoking and smoking is unhealthy" or "nicotine is bad" or "tobacco companies are evil". Now it's "vaping will destroy your lungs and kill you". So I'd say this reaction is entirely predictable.