Why Americans pay more for lunch than Britons do
economist.com
economist.com
Even fuel was less than we expected due to getting 50+ mpg
In some of European countries, shops are closed (by law) on Sunday. Gas stations are exempt from this, hence they morph into shops.
'Gas stations' morphing into shops, is related to the phenomenon of channel blurring, rather than just exploiting the exemptions in laws/rules.
Most of the "large" shops (I think there is a square-footage cutoff point) and shopping centres/malls must only open for 6 hours on a Sunday. So the normally 24/7 huge supermarkets that are the size of several football pitches and are usually packed full of people are forced to shut. This means that everyone needs to get out in the 6 hour window, so traffic is insane and the shops themselves are insane because all the shopping that normally happens spread across 24 hours has to be jammed into 6 hours. It is really annoying.
Smaller shops are allowed to stay open, so in the UK we now have a lot of smaller versions of the large 24/7 supermarket chain stores on high-streets that are typically open something like 8am-10pm/11pm/midnight 7 days a week. These are obviously much more popular than local businesses (cheaper, more reliable, loyalty schemes) so all small independent businesses (greengrocers, bakeries, small grocery stores, hardware stores, stationers, newsagents etc) are being forced out of business.
I wish that one day this silliness would be abolished.
There was a distinct change of pace and feel, far, far less traffic on the roads, and a day free of annoying commerce everywhere. The whole world seemed quieter and lazier on Sunday, and thanks to the huge reduction of traffic, smelt nicer. It was the obvious day for the BBQ, day trip to the beach or theatre, the event in the local park, meet with friends etc.
I miss it.
There's plenty of families now where both partners getting common free days is a rarity, let alone organising group meets. You don't need a day for grocery shopping - just an hour or so. It's not like we found it difficult, or the public agitated for it before Sunday was added to supermarkets and Primark. It was just a concerted trade push for more commerce. :)
But when your refusal puts you at a disadvantage compared to your competition, it eventually stops being a viable choice.
Even the isle of Harris, which still maintains Sunday closing and the slow island pace of life, is changing away from it.
The Islands, and some parts of Wales, maybe other regions had a much more restrictive approach to Sundays than our old "fun permitted" rules, as a religious thing. They'd have more like a total shutdown, with dry Sundays and restriction of entertainments and travel. That may have changed, but they might still be far behind even our old Sunday trading rules!
And I was kind of annoyed when I realized how Sunday works here but came to realize other people want their Sundays free and quiet just as I do. Most people who really need to buy whatever on a Sunday would be screaming the loudest if asked to work Sundays.
Or you can stop at a store on your way back from work...
I left the church but really miss that aspect of it.
I don't know how much longer this Christian stranglehold will have on England.
Train stations are on another level. Parma and buffalo mozzarella on a fresh baguette? No problem.
And free no-questions-asked bathrooms!
The gas prices are often marked up, at least in France.
I remember in Croatia a highway gas station having a full bar, with a sign saying that they won't serve alcohol between 3AM and 6AM.
The only way I can see three adults enjoying a road trip in a vehicle small enough to get 50mpg (assuming petrol) is if you're all car enthusiasts and enjoying the novelty of some 30yo compact car. The second row of a modern compact is a really crappy place if you have to be there for very long.
Though, waist wise, that would be true...
YMMV, of course. ;)
We drove around 5000 miles from Barcelona to nice to Florence to Geneva to Offenburg to Bremen to Luxembourg to Amsterdam to Brugges to Paris to Barcelona. It was fucking awesome - and to tell you the truth I really, really understand what "trip of a lifetime" means now that I've never really recreated that experience.
Three good friends on an adventure together (first time to Europe for all of us!) in a new and interesting place in our mid 20's when we were all single and had jobs we didn't care too much about was a pretty damn great recipe, and we still joke about the football Cheetos floating around the back of the car from the first day of the trip.
The chain bakeries like Gregg's etc just offer the same sort of carefully rationed pre-pack choices as supermarkets.
So, the north west then ;)
In my case breadcake, southerners, roll or bap.
If you go back to ~2015 or so, befire the pound tanked, the numbers were pretty much the same.
A fresh made (off site, I suspect) sandwich with a 50cL drink is €4.70 at 7-Eleven: https://all2day.dk/shell+7-eleven
Even the major chains have those factory made sandwiches that are cut into triangles, plus other hot sandwiches.
What surprises me about the Bay Area, though, is how expensive the suburbs are. I remember seeing apartments in downtown Mountain View that were $3000/month for one bedroom. Now that's insane and I don't think that happens anywhere else in the world.
The cost of living in San Francisco is dramatically higher than New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles.
What surprises me about the Bay Area, though, is how expensive the suburbs are. I remember seeing apartments in downtown Mountain View that were $3000/month for one bedroom. Now that's insane and I don't think that happens anywhere else in the world.
Right, and you can find one bedrooms in the "outer" boroughs for well under that. Perhaps not for much longer, but still.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1430-S-Michigan-Ave-60605/...
~$250k for a 1BR 3 blocks away from Trader Joes and the subway station and many bars and restaurants and parks. The walk/train/bike scores are all >90, so a car isn't needed even though a parking space is included (you could rent it out!).
San Francisco is expensive.
In general, it's expensive all up and down the peninsula specifically, because there's not all that much land, not much multi-unit housing, etc.
No. It's not even representative of the ones on the west coast. It is an outlier in most regards.
Give it time. A lot of the hole-in-the-wall ethnic places probably won't continue to exist.
I wish the city wasn't so harsh on food trucks...
There's a Russian deli at about a 10 minute drive which gets it. At around 10 AM they start making and packing sandwiches and until 1 PM they're all gone. Very cheap, tasty, filling, etc..
In SF a Banh Mi is assuredly going to come right out of a toaster piled high with veg and meat. There are a few other places around that'll toast your sammie and drown it in Italian dressing (Sub Center with your obnoxiously sexist staff and delicious meatball sandwiches I'm looking at you).
Or, you know, Quizznos.
One can only do so many three-margarita lunches before a performance review is due.
I guess many people live in constant state of emergency.
Maybe "lunch as a main meal" is more of a mainland-Europe thing?
I would go so far as to say the average quality of bread available in any random supermarket on the west coast is much lower than in the northeast. That was one of my first culture shocks here: suddenly good bread was a speciality item that needed careful selection.
Whenever I am in Europe I am super impressed with the availability of good cured meats, often from Italy or Spain regardless of what country I am in, and cheaper than the same quality item in the US.
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190103-the-norwegian-...
I have not noticed a difference in bread that you seem to have experienced. I buy the same brands of bread at the Safeway down the street as I bought at Stop & Shop in New England and whatever the grocery store I frequented near Seattle, WA. I never noticed a difference, but I also wasn't looking for one.
What am I missing that I have not noticed this stark difference in sandwich culture between the coasts?
This is an unusually glib comment for me, but it's something I've missed so much since leaving the northeast that I bring back pizza and bagels with me to Seattle whenever I visit New York.
The bagels specifically, are often doughy, "sweet" (they actually add sugar in many places), and with all the wrong textures. It's odd that you mention brands, since I typically buy "supermarket/local baker brand" but I've definitely found that to vary.
Similar comment for donuts, the big brands here e.g. top pot are practically cake rolls.
(Philly also had wawa and corner cheesesteak shops providing way cheaper "decent low-end hoagies" than I can consistently find out here.)
But I think that quality of an out-of-region bagel is also something I find in regular bread out here.
Also I infer from what is stocked on shelves and what I see friends and acquaintances buying that people here have much higher tolerance for stale bread.
Like the commenter above I was not seeking out these experiences, but felt like they kind of smacked me in the face when I got here. It used to be I could shop for bread without thinking. Now I need to be careful and sometimes shopping in the "wrong" place means I have to deal with worse options.
London's a funny example to me because I've been consistently underwhelmed by the food in England (train stations are no exception).
IMO Barcelona, which consistently had some of the worst prepared food of anywhere I've been[1], still had better pre-made train station sandwiches than anything I've seen in London. I distinctly remember being shocked at how expensive (and heavy and otherwise lackluster) the food was at Paddington station, for example. IMO Germany (Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Berlin) has the best mix of affordable and quality convenience foods of any place I've been in Europe so far[2]. Pret was pretty decent (but I've only been at the airport one), and wasn't terribly expensive by airport standards but it was a far cry from a sandwich for a couple quid.
In general I've found that the further south you go in continental Europe, the better the produce is (and in general it's better than what I'd see domestically outside of California/NY). Sure, you can find excellent produce in the Bay Area, but you'll often pay dearly for it.
East Asia is on a whole other level though.
1: Tapas 24 in BCN deserves a shout out for being one of the worst restaurant experiences I've had (food and service-wise) so far this millennium. How Abellan got a Michelin star I'll never know.
2: Two words: Le Crobag.
I don't eat sandwiches from stores, last time I did that was 12 years ago. A sandwich is a last, desperate choice. I get my lunch from one of the stalls at a street food market, between £6 and £7.50 every day.
London is good for Asian food; some of my co-workers who have Asian wives don't think much of the food in Paris for this reason. I, on the other hand, don't care much for Asian food apart from occasional Korean fried chicken as a fast food snack.
When comparing things like sandwiches, I think it's important to normalise for sandwich eating as part of the culture.
That makes some sense as most of the population in Barcelona seemed to me to be British expats. By and large I had a tough time finding anything much better than okay (and certainly anything Catalan is well hidden). In contrast I found Madrid to be particularly easy to find good food (and generally less expensive than anything in BCN).
I don't eat sandwiches from stores, last time I did that was 12 years ago. A sandwich is a last, desperate choice. I get my lunch from one of the stalls at a street food market, between £6 and £7.50 every day.
At that price point you've got plenty of options, even in San Francisco or New York. The Yank Sing to-go location downtown is definitely one of the better value propositions.
London is good for Asian food; some of my co-workers who have Asian wives don't think much of the food in Paris for this reason.
The last time I tried Asian food in London was well over a decade ago, but nothing really stood out. Sure, it was better than the chicken and cheese shu mai I had in Spain (let's face it that sounded like a bad idea as soon as those words left my drunken mouth), but that's a low bar.
When comparing things like sandwiches, I think it's important to normalise for sandwich eating as part of the culture.
Sure. San Francisco trends more towards co-opting burritos than sandwiches, but there's still a definite sandwich culture. What we don't have out here at least is any sort of culture around ready-to-go low effort lunch food. In fact I'd say that whole "slow food" movement hit San Francisco particularly hard. At near/under $10 you can find plenty of things for lunch, but you'll probably have to wait for it to be assembled/cooked.
If you are looking for really good backery stuff (in Germany), you won't find them at the airport/train station at all, as these are nearly universally only served by large chains, none of them especially known for being above the standard.
If you are looking for really good backery stuff (in Germany), you won't find them at the airport/train station at all, as these are nearly universally only served by large chains, none of them especially known for being above the standard.
Sure, that's true nearly anywhere though. Relative to train stations in other countries I found Le Crobag sandwiches to be consistently fairly light compared to what I've found in London stations (e.g. really starchy pasties, hamburgers, and other sorts of things that just looked like gut bombs). Pret must have some presence at tube stations, but I haven't see any.
* NYC
* Seattle
* Stockholm
* London
* SF
I have always thought Subway was ubiquitous. So there's a counterpoint to your affordable, convenient, and decent.
My wife and I just wrapped a few weeks traveling, and the sandwiches we occasionally grabbed on our way to the park were all outstanding and very cheap. Better than any sandwich I’ve purchased in downtown SF.
I can think of at least 4 different specific sandwiches from previous euro-trips that absolutely blew me away, and were just grabbed from a random corner shop. (Paris, Positano, Barcelona, Copenhagen)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-chicken-fast-fo...
If they just marketed the chicken as "Moving Beyond Meat", and IPO'd with the concept, they could have been richer than their wildest dreams.
No, Subway chicken is not 50% soy.
We had a break for lunch at 3am and of course almost nothing was open at that time. He was shocked there were no small cafes to pick up a fresh croissant or sandwich. He said especially in France cafes are on every corner and open early (although maybe not 3am).
Why not, though? It 's nice to have a bit of a break for lunch. What's the rush?
Subway? I'm uninformed but is this not a common thing in the usa?
The meat is suspect. Others here have already mentioned a lawsuit.
If you think the bread is ok then you must have never had bread not made in a giant factory.
That said, it's still not 'convenient' in many areas - you still need to drive there, get out of a car, etc. No more convenient than other places.
Furthermore, as some other people have mentioned, the UK has many, many more small local bakeries that sell high-quality made-to-order sandwiches—well above the quality of Subway, and while individual independent bakeries are of course going to vary, my recollection is that they tended to be above the likes of Panera and the sandwiches you can get at even high-end grocery stores like Whole Foods, as well. There are also various local variants that are well worth eating—the Cornish pasties we got when visiting that region were to die for (especially in Tintagel!).
I have had really nice experience in Leeds with sandwich shops, but I don't think these exist anymore in London.
Near the coast in the East Midlands.
Playstation 4 Pro: UK £349.99 US $364.99 (£291) ~£59 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
Thinkpad X1 Carbon G7 (base spec): UK £1429.99 US $1179.99 (£949) ~£480 difference (lenovo com/co.uk)
HiFiman HE-400i Headphones: UK £329 US $179.99 (£145) £184 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
Sandisk 400Gb Micro SD card: UK £67.95 US $48 (£38) £30 difference (amazon com/co.uk)
if that were your shopping list youd save a total of £753 by buying in the US, which is enough to fly LON-NY with not far off £500 left over! (LHR-JFK BA/Finnair Nov 4th-8th £270 Skyscanner.co.uk)
you guys have it pretty good over there even if you pay more for some food most other things are drastically cheaper than here in the UK. The phrase "Rip Off Britain" is very much true, we and i believe much of Europe get a pretty raw deal on the prices of things like houses, technology, cars etc
It just isn’t worth it.
I find the big price difference for me is on small things. Stuff like rubber bands, paper clips, tooth brushes etc will always be significantly cheaper in the US. But those things are impractical to import from abroad.
Nowhere in the US is there a 25% sales tax (the US VAT equivalent); 5-8% is the norm. Some states have no sales tax at all.
Which, if charged, is usually a fraction of VAT.
You can have state, city, and local tax applied (or item specific like Chicago charge tax on soda for a short while)
Non-profit organisations did not pay either in many cases.
In situations where this tax was paid, they could get a refund at tax time.
Actually the accounting firm would typically pay sales tax on all of their equipment and supplies like printer paper.
Each state has some different rules and exemptions, but the general principle is that items bought for resale are not taxed when the business buys them. This is both for items that are simply bought and sold (like a retailer) or materials that go into a finished product (like gold and gems that a jeweler will turn into jewelry). Instead, the business will collect sales tax (and forward it to the state) when the end user buys the product.
Indiana also has an exemption for equipment used in direct production.
So taking that jewelry example further:
1. Jeweler visits a trade show and buys materials and tools to be used in making jewelry. No tax.
2. Jeweler sells finished goods to a retail store for later resale. No tax.
3. Retail store sells the jewelry to a customer. Sales tax.
There are a few other exemptions, such as certain non-profit activities.
Here are the relevant parts of the Indiana sales tax exemption certificate:
[ ] Sales to a retailer, wholesaler, or manufacturer for resale only.
[ ] Sale of manufacturing machinery, tools, and equipment to be used directly in direct production.
https://forms.in.gov/Download.aspx?id=2717
Vat is usually ... 20-25% most places? (Norway is 25%).
Sales tax is often 6-10%. It is still a fraction, but not insignificant either, and not included in the list price.
When you add sales tax (which is paid most of the time) the difference narrows.
California - 7.5%, Florida - 6%, New York State - 4%.
I was told there was also an EU electronics recycling levy, although I'm not sure how much that adds.
Sticker prices are only loosely related to the out the door price in the US.
https://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/publications/sales/loc...
That still looks like a substantial [raw monetary] saving by causing massive amounts of pollution and flying to USA to shop.
I don't know whether customs would impound your stuff when you get back and demand import duties be paid?
I bet many don't do that, though...
Basically because food is generally VAT free in the UK. Exceptions are eat in at restaurant (VAT), vs take away (no VAT), and take away of certain hot foods (VAT).
Yes. For me, if I go to any restaurant that's not fast food, chances are an entree is enough for 1.5 meals (used to be 2 meals but sadly my appetite has grown). When I was a student I avoided those places because then I'd need a way to pack the food and not have it go bad.
It's easy to see why there's an obesity problem. Most people I speak to think that's one serving for a meal.
Portion sizes in most of the world are smaller.
Higher quality food, 4+ weeks of vacation, working weeks <40 hours, easier access to arts and culture, and significantly less income inequality and economic strife (not counting southern Europe here). Not to mention the lack of regularly occurring mass shootings.
On the other hand, if you're working in tech, the US is definitely the place to be. Salaries are significantly higher, while the costs of goods and services (excluding sandwiches and rent in the bay area) are much cheaper.
For people who've lived and worked on both continents, what are your thoughts?
Unless you work in a major(and expensive) tech hub and have skills that are scarce and in demand, income in tech everywhere else is not that much higher than any other boring office job unless you're a consultant on some niche thing.
So while you'll live a good life, you'll never hear stories like in the US of people in tech making enough money to buy a huge property or retire early unless they founded a successful startup that saw a good exit which is pretty rare.
I travel to Europe a lot for work and its frustrating when you try and get a sandwich and its been sitting premade for a while, soggy bread, and its got a single slice of meat in it. Sure it may be a little cheaper, but compare that with sandwich you can get at Casa Razdora[1] or Bob's[2] and its not even close to as satisfying.
[1] https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/jDayx34LzPfip626pT1g... [2] https://hiddenboston.com/images/BobsDeluxItalian.jpg
If so, is that the biggest food in common for lunches between the US and Great Britain?
I tend to bring my lunch M-Th and get takeout on Friday. My takeout is almost always Thai. When I dine-in it's usually ramen. For them, I expect to pay $10-12. What are prices like for Thai or ramen in London?
US GDP is higher than Sweden, but workers tend to make more money in Sweden. In the US GDP is mainly distributed to the upper classes.
I think in Norway a McDonalds worker makes something like 2x-3x as much per hour as an American McDonalds worker.
In 2018, the U.K. median household income was $35,000 (converted from pounds) [0] and in 2019 $63,800 in the US [1].
That’s an enormous difference. There’s also many more ultra rich in the US than the U.K., but just your normal American has a lot more income to spend.
[0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personal... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
That just isn’t true. And, in minimum wage, the number of people that make minimum wage is extremely small — not even 2% of the total workforce.
https://mises.org/wire/when-it-comes-household-income-sweden...
But, I also noticed that people take a full hour for lunch and get a sit-down meal.
Almost nobody local would have thought to go to Pret.
Maybe the Lobster rolls are bigger?
Maybe give the article a read?
So a lot of it comes down to local positioning and some to marketing. Some to labor costs.
It isn’t very flattering about your sandwiches.
Supply and demand, I suppose.
"Hip" sandwiches and salads are a thing.
Last I heard, Americans were being criticized for populism. Which is it?
But it is usually fine to be a vulgar billionaire. Then you get praise. Moral character in the US is measured by the size of your bank account.
A non-rich person would never have escaped the vulgur behavior of Donald Trump.
Only in America does such behavior get accepted. He embodies American populism and reverence for the ultra rich elite.
How about Berlusconi in Italy?