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Comment by chrisco255 | Hacker News Reader

Seems unlikely in the absence of metal mastery and we are reasonably sure we've found no evidence of iron usage in tool making before the iron age. Humans traded even in prehistoric times, so such tools would have been discovered in sites even remote from this mythical advanced civilization. It seems unlikely that such is the case.

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Actually there are iron weapons made from meteoric iron from before the iron age. Small scale for sure for obvious reasons. Not that relevant to the topic but it might interest you.

Not OP but it interests me! Do you have a link by any chance?

I.e. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteoric_iron#cite_note-Wald...

There are several examples in the Wikipedia entry

Meteoric steel isn't just iron, that's why it's interesting. And why it survives, compared to very early iron made before people learned how to turn it into steel.

NB: Meteoric ferrous metals are almost universally iron or iron-nickel, not steel (iron-carbon). I find few or no hits outside the gaming world for "meteoric steel".

Are you referring to steel found indigenously within meteor fragments, steel forged from meteoric iron, or was this just a misspeaking?

Sorry, I was misremembering stories about things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutankhamun%27s_meteoric_iron_... -- the point being that as an iron alloy (iron-nickel not steel) it doesn't rust away quickly in graves like early human-smelted iron does.

Ah, thanks.

Yes, there are some instances of meteoric iron being used.

I'd thought there were archeological finds of pallasite as well, though may have been confusing those with the Fukang meteorite. Gorgeous material, though.

Didn’t say anything about it being an iron civilization.

Well metal is critical because it's really really hard to chop wood without metal. So you've got stones, bones, and loose timber to work with. About the closest evidence I can find is Mezhirich, a small paleolithic village built out of mammoth bones: https://www.thoughtco.com/mezhirich-mammoth-bone-settlement-... about 18000 years ago.

The mesoamerican civilizations used no iron

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_...

They did chop trees with stone tools. Here you can see how:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BN-34JfUrHY

Yes well I'm talking about chopping trees down and building homes out of them (and enough homes for a civilization). No doubt smaller sticks and loose timber could be used, that's how man mastered fire in the first place. But chopping whole trees probably didn't happen much until after metal.

You can build enough homes for a civilisation without felling any big trees at all. Stone, clay bricks, earth, small trees and branches, straw, etc. would be sufficient.

Even felling big trees doesn't need iron tools - controlled fire will do most of the work: http://www.cherokeeheritage.org/attractions/dugout-canoe/

That looks extremely laborious but it's a fascinating technique. It still limits the amount of lumber one group can use. I agree on clay (in some regions) and stone being available and useable. It still says nothing about supporting a civilization, which requires agriculture.

You're moving goalposts, but early civilisations supported themselves with agriculture before developing metal-working: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/development-of-ag... https://www.ancient.eu/Stone_Age/

> Yes well I'm talking about chopping trees down and building homes out of them

https://youtu.be/zVPUFMwm73Y?t=228

Relevant: Coppice

Large-scale wood-based construction in paleolithic cultures did exist, notably in the Alps:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_pile_dwellings_aro...

Not fine woodworking, perhaps, but possible.

Most early construction was based on found shelter (caves), hides, sod or turf, brick, or stone. Locally-available and hand-workable with very simple tools.

5000-500 B.C. is not the paleolithic era. That's well into the Neolithic and Bronze age.

Point. "Neolithic/early bronze" is stated in the article. Point being that working wood with stone tools happened.

Ale native American lodgehouses and pueblos (adobe walls, timber roofs), also stone tools.

I'll go along your argument, that it seems very unlikely that there was a advanced civilization but just hypothetical:

if there was a really really old civilization, wouldn't their iron tools be degraded beyound recognition? (especially if it was a coastal civilization later drowned in the salty sea)

Oh and a (spaced out) esoteric explanation, some people tried to convince me of: this old civilization was so advanced it had quantum technology aka magic to get things done and eventually wiped itself out in a civil war ..

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