Comment by reaperducer | Hacker News Reader

Comment by reaperducer | Hacker News Reader

After reading all the griping on HN about Apple's supposedly draconian independent repair policies, I was very surprised with my recent experience.

I phoned Apple last week to get the battery replaced in my 2011 MacBook Air, and the nice lady said that Apple won't fix it because it's classified as obsolete. I wasn't mad or anything; I kind of figured that would happen since the computer is eight years old.

What I didn't expect is that she had a list of independent, authorized Apple repair places at her fingertips, and e-mailed me the information for a few. Even in the craptastic low-end town I live in, there were three options. I was very surprised.

Brought my computer in, and the price is $180 — $130 for the battery, and $50 for the labor. Seems about right. When I priced the battery replacement last year (before it was "obsolete"), it was $130. I guess Apple doesn't charge for labor.

There was an interesting sign in the store. It was an Apple sign, and it asked to be sure to provide the store with an e-mail address, because Apple may follow up to find out if the store's service was up to Apple standards. I thought that was very interesting.

I haven't picked up my computer yet (the store had to order the battery). But I'm curious to find out if I'll get picked for my feedback.

Last year I wanted to replace the battery on my 2014 13'' MBP.

I live in Mexico so Apple doesn't do repairs. There are only official third party repair shops but they still get their parts from Apple though.

So I got a quote that was about $350 USD + labor, but with a discount it went down to about $200 USD + labor IIRC because Apple would buy the used part. Still excessive IMO. The excuse was that the battery is glued to the keyboard and they had to replace the complete top panel too.

I just bought a third party battery and replaced it myself. I unglued it with a solvent and a syringe. In total I paid less than $50 USD... The MBP is still doing great a year later.

Yet, based on the comments in this very thread, you'd think that Apple had someone stopped you from repairing your own device...

They do to a certain extent. Home buttons on phones that are married to the motherboard and can only be reset by apple or an AASP is just one example, but the most obvious one.

That's so dishonest, though. They're married to the logic board on the phone because it's an integral part of the security chain for the phone to verify that your fingerprint matches the key that's in the Secure Enclave. If they didn't do that, there would be no way to verify that a third-party repair wasn't surreptitiously stealing your biometric data every time you used it. It's not done to prevent third parties from repairing it. It's done to prevent nefarious parties from compromising the security of the device.

I suggest you watch some videos by Louis Rossmann on youtube to understand the problems with Apple's repair policies. The problem isn't with Apple certified repair shops, but with independent repair shops

Every time Apple's repair policies come up on HN, someone mentions Louis Rossmann, and every time they do, someone replies (and it seems like a different person each time) pointing out that he has a significant bias against Apple, and to take what he says about them with a grain of salt.

All I personally know about it is what I've seen on here, but it does seem like it's worth being a little skeptical about what Rossmann has to say about Apple.

I mean, he makes a living out of repairing Apple products even though he's not certified. He might have an innate bias against them for whatever reason, but as someone who is interested in tech but not an Apple user the stuff he says about Apple makes sense to me and doesn't seem biased in order to make them look bad.

Internet logic: 1. Escape from North Korea. 2. Start YouTube channel documenting abuses of NK. 3. Get accused of bias for being "anti North Korea". 4. Anti-NK-escapee campaign gains steam 4. Get banned from all platforms for hate speech.

Personally I always root for the underdog, they have less resources so it's harder for them to fabricate information.

> it's worth being a little skeptical about what Rossmann has to say about Apple

Sure, just like it's good to be a little skeptical about what anyone say.

Rossmann isn't a liar though, what he say about Apple is right. You may thing he avoid saying positive things about them (but I did hear him say plenty of positive things about them) but that doesn't make what he say about Apple false.

Rossmann admits when he is wrong (the best example was recently on the legal case about some other independent repairer, where he changed his stance to Apple's side, when he learnt more details).

And he actually praises Apple quite a bit as well, in areas where he thinks they do well, such as their trackpads.

I disagree. Louis still hasn't admitted or updated several videos where he flat out says something wrong or misdiagnoses an issue. Case in point, people still cite his video "proving" that the new MacBook Pros have broken WiFi adapters as "evidence" that Apple has started using cheaper adapters to squeeze more money out of people. The reality is that they're still using the same adapters but that Louis was using an unshielded USB-A to USB-C adapter during that test which interfered with the WiFi signal. He's never issued a follow-up or clarification video even after he discovered that everything worked as intended with a normal, shielded USB adaptor. Reddit users even called him out on it because all Dell laptops with USB-C ports had the same issues when using these cheaper, unshielded cables.

One shouldnt take repetition to be more valuable than reputation let alone analysis.

Rossmann is great when he's going over some of the practicalities of running an independent repair business, but to get to those you have to go through a lot of videos slagging on Apple.

He does try to justify his vitriol, and it's obviously one-sided and he makes no bones about it. Apple, being a big corporation, won't provide a candid response to any of it.

So, agreed to the extent you'll definitely understand that repair shops are feeling the pinch and have a clear idea of why that's happening from their perspective. But you'll still be missing an understanding of the challenges a large manufacturer faces trying to run an authorized service provider program.

Louis is not a good example, though. He is a very rare exception to the issue that Apple is fighting against.

Louis definitely knows his stuff and has the technical knowledge to repair devices and probably doesn't need to be certified in any way. The number of people that have the skills Louis does, though, is vanishingly small.

So, in his case, Apple is asking him to pay money every year to be certified in something that he likely already knows how to do and is not willing to send him parts to do the repairs he knows how to do. That's a reasonable position.

From Apple's perspective, though, Louis is the exception and they want everyone certified. To them, Louis can easily get certified and join their program and there's no need for them to not enforce the same policies for all repair shops.

The issue lies in the repair shops that don't have the skills that Louis does. Apple wants to make sure that repairs done by those people, who are in the vast majority, are done to a certain level of quality. It's the same reason why they replace full components instead of opting for board repairs like Louis is also able and skilled enough to do. For Louis's customers, they'd get a great repair and a reasonable cost. For everyone else, they'd get a subpar repair for the same cost.

I would hope that your device is encrypted given that the US government is now directly bribing repair techs who find certain illegal materials.

One might be inspired to copy and paste themselves a bonus.

Note this pertains to the geek squad so far as we presently know.

FYI - You can buy 2011 MBA battery replacement kits on Amazon for $50. I replaced my own (same model/year) in 2017, the shop in my area (Los Angeles) was going to charge me $250!

My hands are no longer capable of such delicate work.

I replaced the battery on an iPhone 4 on my own. By the time I was time to do it to a 6Plus, I ruined the thing. My devices are better off in the hands of (hopefully) insured professionals.

$50 for labor makes sense from a shop but you could do it yourself with a $5 screwdriver with the right bit and less than 5 minutes of your time, given you could find a part and weren't worried about warranty on the repair process itself. For peace of mind, worth it but this is much more like replacing your own car battery or air filter than an oil change even.

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