Poll: How much do you trust Google? | Hacker News Reader

Poll: How much do you trust Google?

52 pointsjacquesm46 comments

People must have varying levels of trust towards google, the amount of data they have combined with all the personal information from search history and gmail is staggering. How does that affect your trust of google, do you find yourself more or less careful because of that ?

You can vote up multiple entries below to indicate how much you would trust them with.

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Trust them to do/not do what?

I use them for search. still better than anything else out there

I trust them to do their best to keep gmail working

I trust them not to fudge my analytics data

I don't trust them to have any sense of loyalty to me at all

I don't trust them to keep my data private if given a reason not to. If Google were subpoenaed, I assume they'd give up my data in a heartbeat

I think Google has almost no moral compass, but will do what it needs to to make money. for the moment that means keeping most of its users happy, so I'm happy to use them.

I'd never trust Google for income, just as I don't trust Paypal. I'm not willing to put my livelihood in the hands of a company that can destroy it on a whim, and probably not even notice

[Edited to add that "almost no moral compass" is not the same as "no moral compass". Facebook I'd consider to have no moral compass]

Should we expect companies to hold out when subpoenaed? Though I know it's often not the case, aren't the subpoenas vetted by the court issuing them?

I'm certainly not a lawyer, but when I expect a company to follow laws for protection of my privacy, I also assume that they follow the laws when they go the other way.

Exactly. I tried for a while to stop using Google services, concerned by how much of my information they control, and I found that it was extremely impractical. Google is no longer my default search engine (unless I'm using Chrome on my netbook) but I often need to use it anyways - it just gets better results than the competition for a lot of things. Gmail is simply the best e-mail solution for me - maybe it's just because I'm used to it but I was unable to get behind any of the competitors or open source options. I typically use Analytics on all my sites, although that might be changing soon. Same with AdSense.

tl;dr I don't not trust them enough to stop using their services completely, which I simply found too extremely impractical to do.

I trust Google as a company. But as Google is under US jurisdiction it is affected by things like National Security Letter subpoenas (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter). This is a type of subpoena that does not require a probable cause or judicial oversight (meaning that the FBI can issue them without court order) and the recipient is under a gag order prohibited from speaking about them.

In addition, Google seems to also abide to subpoenas issued by other countries, but does not clearly state under what conditions. E.g., is the German government only able to subpoena accounts of German citizens? Or of people who used Gmail in Germany? Or of any Gmail user if there is a probable connection to Germany? And under what conditions does Google adhere to the data retention laws in some European countries?

I acknowledge that there are cases where it is legitimate that government agencies get access to one's mails. But if this is possible without court orders I consider this largely undemocratic. As a consequence, I try to keep as much information as possible on my own server (with a fully encrypted filesystem).

So I:

- Currently use Google for searches, but I have set my browser to delete all cookies on shutdown. I have not Flash installed, so I'm not affected by "Flash-cookies". I also tried out duckduckgo as search engine, but in my opinion the search results are considerably worse than Google's.

- I have some domains using Google Apps that I've moved to Google in the past. But I'm currently in the process to also move the remaining domains (that only relay mails) back to my own server. However, I also acknowledge that this is somewhat futile given that 90% of people I communicate with use Gmail - meaning that all of my mails are stored on Gmail anyway.

I've never linked to an xkcd cartoon before but I think this one is very apt:

http://xkcd.com/538/

Yes - I know it :) And I also know the limits of encryption.

But just because there are also vulnerabilities if you're hosting everything on your own server, doesn't mean that you need to surrender your data in advance.

>this is somewhat futile given that 90% of people I communicate with use Gmail

Ya, I gave up when I realized this and just signed up for Google Apps email.

But if I become a founder of a medium-sized company--somehow in Google's interest--I'd put in the effort to host email locally.

I trust that Google probably wouldn't do anything evil with my search queries, but then people probably trusted AOL the same way. You don't have to be evil to make a silly mistake, and you don't have to be evil to be hacked or subpoenaed.

But even though I trust Google, DuckDuckGo's privacy policy is so good I can't help but trust them for search more. Trust is relative, and I always try to use the most trustworthy solution.

I absolutely don't trust anyone else with my private email and so host it myself. Fortunately, quite a few of the people I email a lot self host also, and most of the traffic goes over TLS, and some of us even use PGP.

I used to use their analytics but no longer do. That's a difficult one. Their analytics is very good, but I believe it gives them too much power. A local installation of webalizer is good enough for my purposes. YMMV

I would rely on them for a large portion of my income, but don't. When you think about it, the vast majority of people rely on a single company for most/all of their income. Income diversity would be good, but it's difficult for most to achieve.

Google has more dirt on me (primarily due to email) than any one other company/individual, but I find it really hard to care. While I'm sure certain bits of it could be used against me, I just can't muster the energy to be bothered by it. They give me enough value that I just don't care.

It's not that I don't care... I just don't see the scenario were Google would care about my dirt specifically or do anything with it like blackmail me (not that there's really much worth blackmailing me with there).

It would be very hard for them to exploit personally identifying info on a large scale without it being noticed and causing a shit storm. And I don't call targeted ads 'exploiting' my info. That's a service.

I just voted, but (maybe because English is not my primary language) I didn't understand the poll very well. While I RELY on Google for some email accounts, analytics and search queries, I wouldn't say I "trust" Google.

Bottom line is - Rely on them? Yes; Trust them? No.

Doesn't relying imply trust?

Trust implies comfort and positive results. It's a very value-laden term. "Do you trust X to Y..." always seems like a set-up question to me.

A clearer question would be "what do you expect Google to do, how effectively and consistently do you expect them to do it, how well does that serve you and what alternatives do you imagine?"

Maybe, but the emails are mostly used for subscriptions and the like, so if they go down it wouldn't affect me that much.

As for the Analytics/Docs etc. I use them because my clients do and I don't have many other places to point them to.

As for Trusting, what I mean is that I think that they would breach my privacy if they wanted/had to. It's a corporation that profits based on its user data, so I wouldn't be they'll look after their users if it affects their bottomline.

Do you trust the politicians that you rely on to run your country?

I have the same problem. I do "trust" Google with some of my activities (such as watching online videos on -> Youtube and sometimes using the web search -> Google) but I do not trust them in the meaning that I think they do no evil with my data.

I trust they are not abusing the data they record about me, but I do not trust in the good of harvesting and data mining said data.

I trust Google precisely as much as I trust any other corporation on the Fortune 500. (For poll choices, "I trust them with a substantial portion of my income" -- 100%, for all intents and purposes. I'm the lamprey to their shark -- I wish I could quit them but wouldn't be much good swimming without them and if I let go for an instant I have a funny feeling I'll meet the teeth.)

That's a really neat and applicable analogy.

Lamprey or remora? Sort of changes the analogy. A lamprey kills its host. A remora just eats the scraps.

Now, or later? Right now, I trust them fairly well in that they're not abusing their powers very much, aside from having issues with bugs in their support AI programs.

But, someday, I fully expect the founders to move out and other people to move in who really don't care about the corporate slogan and who have no way to make the company grow except to monetize more of the personal data they're sitting on in ways that people won't like.

That's when I expect the real evil to begin.

And the problem is that trusting Google now with your data is implicitly trusting future Google with your data. Once they start to do evil, you can't just pull the plug and walk away, taking your data with you.

I think this is a difficult question. It's similar to asking .. "How much do you trust the government?".

Both of these large organisations are often spoken about in terms of being a single entity - but in reality, they are large groups of individuals; autonomous entities; in other words, humans.

Human nature is complex - and an individual's motivation can vary wildly based on their circumstances, upbringing and genetic make-up. Some people will choose to exploit their situation for personal gain - this is a fact of life.

So I think, when reduced, this question is basically asking how much do you trust people?

My answer: I expect trouble.

Who honestly believes that Google would snoop around in the email accounts of competing businesses?

How removed from reality and driven by paranoia do you have to be to think that?

I assume, jacquesm, that you were simply putting together scenarios to vote on and weren't necessarily implying this yourself.

Google no, but I think it's a little naive to believe the Chinese aren't trying to do this. They would be incompetent if they didn't try to infiltrate Google, as the wikileaks documents suggest they did. Government backed corporate espionage is pretty common. For instance, just from today:

  French intelligence is looking into a possible Chinese role
  in spying on carmaker Renault, a government source told 
  Reuters on Friday. Three executives, including one of its
  management committee, were suspended on Monday in the case
  suspected of leaking material on the electric vehicle
  program in which Renault and partner Nissan have invested
  billions.

If a third party or government wanted to infiltrate the email or other service provider of a business they were interested in, then it doesn't matter if they're Google or another provider. They'd go after whoever has the data.

I would actually trust Google to have more technical expertise to withstand an outright attack than a smaller ISP, and to play hardball with lawyers more if compelled otherwise. And if worst comes to worse and they are forced, I'd trust them to make a stink about it like they did last year with searched in China.

I trust Google as an organization but I don't trust individual googlers or governments that host Google resources. You can be sure that foreign agents and jealous boyfriends are part of Google's engineering staff.

Where is the option "I don't trust them with anything, but use them anyway because there are no better alternatives" :)

A while back I wrote an article talking about how Google has more information on you than any other single organization (government or corporate). Sure it's Gmail, search, ads (tracking cookies), but it's also maps, Chrome, Android. I'm just terrified Google is going to merge w/ the federal govt. jk http://www.davidabailey.com/index.php?title=The%20Internet%2...

I trust them to act as a rational, enlightened for-profit business? Just like all the other businesses and services I depend on?

Google is not a person; the word 'trust' misframes the debate about it. What you should be asking is whether their potential profit from maintaining their reputation will outweigh the profits from doing whatever it is you're afraid they'll do. And the answer, of course, depends.

Been wary of Google for a long time and fortunately it seems to be catching on a bit. Sometimes searches are necessary if none of the other engines turn up anything, but I try to avoid them in all other contexts (including GTalk and Google Groups). Realistically most of my information can still be found and connected, if specifically targeted, but at least someone has to work for it.

I use them, but I don't trust them. They've got my email and feedreader (for now), but not much of my search.

I hate instant search, and I don't want to authenticate myself to them just to turn it off. My browser is forgetful of cookies, and I shut it down regularly to get shit done.

DuckDuckGo is a refreshing alternative and Google now gets but a meager fraction of my search, where they used to be almost exclusive. I'll check DDG first, then elsewhere if I'm disappointed. Subjectively, DDG result relevance seems to be improving lately.

I also block Google's Javascript analytics and ads, as I do all other third parties. As a user how can I trust let alone know what all these ad networks and doohickies in a page really are? If you want to advertise or analyze on your site, fine, back it up by serving it out of your own domain if it matters that much to your bottom line.

To me it's more apathy than trust, which is weird because with every other site online I'm filled with paranoia.

Poll seems to be good but 'trust google' is a broad question. Companies and people are bound by rules and regulations. If something like Google Buzz happens, they will get punished.

Could you pls explain what is the purpose of this poll?

Plug: I am the creator of just released http://www.getdropandlock.com/ I use this for sending all attachments.

One thing I try to do is to never stay logged in on any Google service like gmail or analytics (my browser remembers the password). I'm sure they could still track most of my internet traffic, but at least, their data becomes less reliable.

I also don't use Google DNS by principle.

I don't trust them at all but they're too pervasive to avoid. It's like trusting your local water utility. You can probably filter enough for drinking and cooking, but not enough to shower with or water the garden.

I joke that I have sold my soul to google because of my Droid. Then they went and gave me a Chronos. It concerns me that they know more about me than any other person in the world.

"Rely on them for a substantial portion of my income."

I'm guessing Google employees should upvote this one? :)

I have no problem having my search history, email and analytics at Google.

I trust them, i trust them 100 times more than facebook,

Would be interesting to see a similar poll for Facebook

Trust as in reliability or privacy?

i don't trust them at all, but their services are too ingrained in me to go somewhere else.

I used to not care, but now I don't trust them at all. I can't wait for liberation. In fact, let me remember to make it real!

I trust them with my votes on a Hacker News poll.

I don't trust them with anything

I trust them completely. They have proven that their motivation is just for servicing better and better to users and the world. I remember before gmail came, yahoo had a 4MB account without pop3 or imap (still doen't have!) or anything else and with ads in any mails and up any page! Or you know that how heavy traffic would Google Instant bring to servers but google do that just to save users 1-2 seconds!!

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