Fairphone 3 Launch [video] | Hacker News Reader

Fairphone 3 Launch [video]

fairphone.com

131 pointstannhaeuser77 comments

I own a Fairphone 2 and was very proud to buy it and support the company that is behind it. Honestly I have to say that specs are not (and were not at the time) impressive, and that the phone has had quite a few hardware issues (which I mostly attribute to the fact that the Fairphone company is still rather young, and building a high quality smartphone likely requires a lot of experience). As an object, the value/cost ratio is not stellar, but if you factor in the added value given by the work for a better and fairer world, my personal balance is strongly positive. Given that Fairphone 2 was already a great improvement over the first edition, I really hope that 3 is finally a great smartphone, with a great social value. All the best to people developing it! :-)

Although I'm generally very satisfied with my FP2 (especially being able to run Fairphone Open, i.e. plain AOSP with their support, is surprisingly neat), I agree that it has some hardware issues.

Those mostly seem to be the result of the "gimmicky" way modularity was implemented for it though, i.e. without screws. I'm very hopeful that FP3 will be much better in this regard. See also https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/27/can-fairphone-3-scale-ethi...

Specs are not impressive indeed, but have been perfectly fine for me. Better battery life and a finger print scanner seem like marked improvements, but otherwise given that FP2 has suited my needs just fine, I figure I'd hardly even notice the other improvements with an FP3.

But then, I'm not buying it - with the FP2 still working, that would pretty much be against the concept.

If you take into account the smartphone is fairly made, and take into account that it only has single lens, the camera is quite good on the FP3. The camera got compared with the Google Pixel 3A and the Moto G7 [1].

The original camera on the FP2 was, in my opinion, not good enough. However the modular update (which was added in the then currently sold FP2 as well).

[1] https://tweakers.net/reviews/7290/4/fairphone-3-de-meest-rep...

If you skip to about 21:00 in the presentation, the presenter says they added screws.

Yes, that's why I'm hopeful that the FP3 will be better.

I wonder whether this device will be on the mainline kernel. The obsolescence for Fairphone 2 wasn't hardware, it was software. This seems to be the major issue keeping smartphones running for a long time today, the only equivalent hardware issue on timescale and importance is replacement of the battery. Being able to repair the rest of the hardware is a good next step, but is futile if your security and software updates rely on the chip manufacturer, and get abandoned within 2 years.

> it was software

Well, it depends on which OS, it might not be the case for android, but I think it can receive all the lastest updates on Ubutnu Touch (See the lastest release bloc on https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/FP2 )

Edit: for the android part:

>A Fairphone representative also told Android Authority that the Fairphone 3 was “most likely” to receive Android 10. In fact, the representative noted that the phone will receive five years of software support.

https://www.androidauthority.com/fairphone-3-1014831/

Firmware. Qualcomm no longer provides updates for Snapdragon 801. For quite some while, if I may add.

I would really love a phone with a fully upstreamed kernel and manufacturer-supported LineageOS. Sadly there's nothing even remotely equivalent on the market today.

Is this even possible? LineageOS would have to be forked by the manufacturer to be supported by them.

What would be nice is being able to pay for LineageOS to be supported on specific devices. If enough people pay $1/month or something else inconsequential individually, it should be possible to compensate the volunteers who currently work on device support.

> LineageOS would have to be forked by the manufacturer to be supported by them.

LineageOS accept patches, do they not?

In a word, yes. In many words, it can be difficult to get a patch merged (or even reviewed) as each device might be maintained by specific (or group of) person(s) who may or may not want to take patches from other individuals or organizations.

Patches to Base? I have no idea, but I suspect it would be easier provided it lines up with their Charter.

Software may be a bit delayed, but if you care mostly about security and less about having the absolute latest Android version (with some nice to have functionnalities I suppose, but I don't miss them so far), it's very good.

My fairphone 2 is running Android 7, started at 5 I think, and the latest security update was this month [1]. And those security updates are pretty regular.

[1] https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/208342503-Fa...

> the latest security update was this month

That doesn't include kernel security updates though, does it? What does "Vendor security patch level" say? Isn't that still stuck on 1 April 2018?

I only see "Android security patch level", which says March 2019 for me: https://i.imgur.com/rdEsUna.png

(I'm on Fairphone Open though - I saw their regular OS has had an update a few days ago.)

> "Android security patch level", which says March 2019

On LineageOS, at least, "Android security patch level" seems to be the OS only and doesn't include the kernel or firmware blobs (eg. the radio stack).

I'm willing to check the Vendor security patch level for you, then, but you'd have to tell me where to find it - it's not on that screen.

I understand but I don't know how. I'm just doubting that the kernel has been updated for security at all. As others have said, apparently we're dependent on Qualcomm for updates and they no longer release any.

Most of it is going over my head, but I just received an update for the Open OS today as well, and the list of CVEs fixed is here: https://code.fairphone.com/contentx/2019-08-28_fairphone-ope...

Perhaps that might give some insight into whether the kernel has been updated. But yeah, I've understood that Qualcomm is a bottleneck as well.

> My fairphone 2 is running Android 7

You will soon be 3 major releases behind.

Honestly, major releases of Android meant something between the early Android 2.0 - 5.0 period. Most of the features since then have been largely cosmetic. Ask the average user if they're using their phone differently in the last 5 years (Android 5.0 release was in 2014) and I'd wager little to none of that would be related to OS-level changes.

That's quite subjective.

You can get a list here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history

Android 8, in particular, was a massive upgrade. Plus all the optimizations to save battery, to make apps faster, etc.

I guess it really depends on whether you pay attention to the change logs. My phone has Android 9 on it right now and I can't really remember any meaningful new features since Android 6.

Next update of android will give me QoL improvement for hearing aid users like me, which is great.

Otherwise, I don't really care that much except security updates.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Librem 5 and PinePhone in this regard; both should be usable with a mainline kernel. If we could get hardware like that ethically sourced (like with the Fairphone) and running entirely or almost entirely free software (like with the Librem 5)... well, we'd be in a pretty good spot I think.

It’s a pity all these companies aren’t working together. They could definitely make each other’s platforms more viable by pooling scale in one way or another.

Yeah, I think that would be super valuable. Each of them is focusing on a slightly different niche for now though, even if their goals overlap a lot, and I think that's okay!

Picking a specific goal and optimizing for that is safer than rocking all the boats at once: https://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology

Afaik, the Librem 5 is mostly open hardware, so I'm sure the folks at Fairphone could make a version of that phone, but manufactured differently. They could keep the same software stack, so the work should be fairly limited to just manufacturing.

If you just want to see the specs, go to https://shop.fairphone.com/en/?ref=header&

I don't and won't use Android, but the phone itself looks great and I really appreciate the modularity of the build. Very cool and admirable.

Fairphone actually provides very good support for alternative OSes, including Fairphone Open, an Android version stripped from Google software (https://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/), and Ubuntu Touch.

What's the point of having modular hardware, if the software-side only get a lifetime of (at least) 1 major version?

You get 5 year guaranteed support for the FP3. The FP2 launched with 5.1, and it is now on Android 7. We got Android 9 working via LineageOS but that is weekly snapshots which can (and will) break. The problem here, btw, is Qualcomm.

So, that's why they can't leave guarantees then, they simply don't know how long Qualcomm will support the chipset.

I wonder how this compares to other chipset makers

Doesn't Qualcomm also contribute to mainlining of kernel support? Are the drivers for the FP3 SOC upstreamed in mainline? If not, is there an effort to do that?

Agreed. I would definitely purchase one if it was marketed more as a platform and less as the third iteration of a phone.

If I could buy a better camera that's compatible with the FP3 in a year, then a better screen 2 years later, etc, then I would definitely purchase this.

"If you don’t need it, we don’t include it! There’s no charger, cable or earphones, so you can use the ones you have and help cut down on e-waste."

"Included: mini-screwdriver"

A USB cable might have been nice, but I never use the earbuds that come with devices. This is okay be me. They didn't even need to include the screwdriver. Actually, I do like having extra mini-screwdrivers, so that is okay by me.

I've wanted one of these for years, but live in the US. Would importing it work, or would my provider not support it?

Likely finicky, they're explicitly not supporting it, and posts here seem nervous about it: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/general-fairphone-3-discussion...

Official support page: https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032577632...

Well that's not too bad. I could live with 3G personally, given what I use my phone for, but I doubt many others could.

I would wait a little while to see if they update that page more. It seems like a lot of the text there is just cloned from the Fairphone 2 page.

https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032577632...

https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001535686...

I like those bezels. I'm not sure why others hate them so much; it's nice to see a phone with room to hold it.

Spare display for $90 that I can install myself? Starts throwing money their way

To be fair, used to also be easily achievable with older iPhone models, like the 6S

Is that no longer a thing? I've only repaired up to 6. My wife now has an 8, does she need a case this time?

They're still easy to repair, if you are somewhat skilled. You can't always source high quality 3rd party displays, and parts (especially batteries) and Apple is trying to clamp down further on the 3rd party parts market (what's called the "pirate parts" market)

> They're still easy to repair, if you are somewhat skilled.

Which is a contradictio in terminis. If only a select few are able to repair the smartphone, then it is apparently difficult to repair the smartphone.

It's all relative. It's not a very difficult repair like say, replacing a screen on a Galaxy S8, iPad or Macbook Pro. You need some skills/experience and the correct tools and then it will take 15-20 minutes. An experienced phone technician will have no issues whatsoever. A relatively inexperienced, brave individual like me can do it alone in 30-60 min. But again, not like this Fairphone.

As much as I'd love to support this, it lacks some of the LTE bands that I'd need.

Worse, too many of the newer phones have jumped on the no replaceable battery/no headphone jack/no MicroSD slot/all glass bandwagon. Sigh.

Could you explain? Are you in a country that has different LTE bands than europe?

Its band support is not good wherever you live. It doesn't have two Russian bands, one German, one Romanian, a few US etc.

I strongly considered getting a Fairphone, but the reviews for the last one made it feel like an early prototype. And then there was the lack of Android updates.

The only decent alternative to my iPhone still seems to be a Nokia dumbphone.

> The only decent alternative to my iPhone still seems to be a Nokia dumbphone.

Why? Some of the models featuring Android One are pretty great. As for the environment, I don't think there is much of a difference between most Android phones vs iPhone.

iPhones do have a really solid software update programme, they are supported for 4 or 5 years, which is way more than almost all Android phones. Many Android phones are supported only for 18 months. Also, because of the resale value of the phones changing the battery or making minor repairs is much more likely. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if iPhone has been better than Fairphone up to now, for these reasons, although Fairphone is working with excellent long term ambitions which we should all support.

> the lack of Android updates.

It is the only Android phone with this SoC to have Android 7 officially supported.

Fairphone are doing as much as they can in this regard.

Not sure if I'm missing something but I'm unable to have the phone shipped to Sweden. According to this support article however they do ship to Sweden: https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/202005103-Wh...

Great news! I hope fairphone will last to the day me and my company will be able to afford them to me and all my future staff :)

This needs GrapheneOS support - does it provide the hardware security features that GrapheneOS requires?

I hope there will be a supported version of Android without Google services for this phone.

Isn't LineageOS what you are looking for? You can take with or without Google bloatware. It is available and regularly updated for FP2, where I use it.

LineageOS for the FP2 is no longer supported: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/FP2

Yes, it is. I don't know why that page says that, but I am running it right now (with microG), and I get weekly updates. Other people are running the non-microG version just fine. One caveat: you're running on weekly snapshots, and these might break. Currently the last known working version of the previous snapshot. The current one (from ~28 August) is broken.

It may still have builds but it doesn't have a maintainer.

"If the maintainer is no longer working on it, and it's a 15.1 device (RMN4 is), then it will almost certainly be dropped from the build roster eventually."

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/auymfy/what_happ...

It has a maintainer: chrmhoffmann. The builds get updated every week.

That's weird. The wayback machine suggests that the page was updated to remove his name... today. I'm not sure what's going on.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190827190701/https://wiki.line...

He just posted on the Fairphone forums that he was on a business trip and vacation. New builds have been pushed for LineageOS and LOS + microG.

Ah, that's unfortunate. It must be very recent, though, because I'm sure I've checked the same page no earlier than a few weeks ago.

They have a version without Google services called Fairphone Open - https://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/

This interview with the founder says there will be, although it's not available yet: https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/27/can-fairphone-3-scale-ethi...

My Fairphone 2 recently broke down and I was disappointed there was no Fairphone 3, or better yet, an upgraded core module for my Fairphone 2. This launch comes just a bit too late for me, because I ended up getting a OnePlus 7.

Just an aside: the header image on the FairPhone homepage is nearly 750kb.

Why do companies feel the need to add such bloated images to their homepages even when the image adds nothing to the user experience?

I don't think it's about a need to add bloated images, it's actually reverse : putting the full unoptimized version of an image is the default, and they don't take the time to improve this because they don't feel the need to (or they may have other things priorised)

Regardless of whether they feel the need to or not, it makes for a bad user-experience. Not everyone is using broadband. Running the image through a basic compression tool reduces the size by nearly 350kb.

> $450 for a phone with a Qualcomm Snapdragon 632, huge top and bottom bezels? To me, a Chinese moto phone is more reasonable (as I don't have any important info on it).

For you it might be more reasonable. For the people who assembled that Chinese moto phone, and the Earth? Definitely not.

if there's a ruggedized, otterbox-like case, I'll do it! All of my phones have been subjected to harsh physical treatment. I'm wearing out my otterbox :)

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