The pentagram at the bottom left of the video is an instant deal-breaker for millions of regular folks...
being aware of social sensitivities is a big part of being successful for projects that aim for broad adoption.
being aware of social sensitivities is a big part of being successful for projects that aim for broad adoption.
And also, you know some of us are actually practicing Ritual or Ceremonial Magick, and this is actually a sacred symbol for us?
I'd understand if it was upside down, which is part of the laughable LaVeyan Satanic cult, but I assure you there are likely people you know who may be members of very serious Magical Orders.
I will not mention my specific associations with any of these Orders, but even Freemasonry, which I was involved in for years, if studied carefully, has its roots in Ceremonial Magick.
Their use of the pentagram was highly attractive to me - and, furthermore, funny, and clearly educated in Magick to an extent - the I/O symbol at the top is an adorable nod to that being the node of the Spirit.
but I also have lots of family and friends in rural, conservative, christian USA. I assure you, upside down or right side up... If I tried to show them this video, they would flip out. There would be no talk about privacy or cell phones. All discussion would be hyper focused on the presence of this symbol.
Yes, the would equally flip out if the symbol had been a Star and Cresent (Islam), or Swastica (Hinduism, Buddhism, et. all).
I know this debate isn't new (safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc.) but the only point I'm trying to make is that some people will always find the choice to include any religious symbolism in a technical talk divisive. (which sometimes is fine if we are aware and choose deliberately...)
-- Hopefully I'm allowed brief tangent back on topic - just in case anyone associated with the project/talk notices this post (and grandparent post): I'm super excited about this phone, and as soon as there's concrete data about comparability for US carriers, I would love to purchase one.
Flip out because the Wiccan CTO is using a pentagram, or because the CTO is Wiccan?
I certainly understand the desire to separate religious iconography from technical slides, but I don't think your example has much to do with that.
Yeah, it's a little tone-deaf.
I understand it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek and all that. But if, for example, they used a swastika, even if they were using it in the context one of the dozens of cultures for whom it's a normal symbol, it would still be tone deaf.
A lot of people here are saying it's just a symbol, etc... But if it was a Christian cross, I bet a lot of HN readers would flinch with "I'm not supporting some fundy company!"
If you use a symbol that has a particular widespread meaning, then people are going to think of that meaning when you use the symbol, even if they then figure out what you really mean a second or two later.
That's why companies trademark logos, and why other companies trying to associate themselves with those companies try to make their logos look similar. (Think of all the knock-off Starbucks-themed coffee shops around the world.)
I... sort of agree with you. It's generally desirable to make your products acceptable to everyone you can, and so the decision to include a pentagram is probably poorly calculated.
But on the other hand, the sort of people who would put a cross symbol in the corner of a video are probably for-real fundies, while it's obviously extremely unlikely that anyone involved in the making of this video is a for-real Satanist (in the religious sense of the term). So I think there might be some justification for differential treatment on the basis of this context.
The upside down pentagram 'symbol of Satan' isn't even the symbol of Satan. It's a symbol of the goat's head of Baphomet, which, yes, is on the cover of the LaVeyan Satanic bible, which, um, claims Satan doesn't exist, and worshipping 'Satan' is ignorant and stupid.
The upright pentagram is used in Ceremonial Magick, in fact, as part of a banishing ritual, the aim of which is to literally banish any negative energies or entities.
It baffles me to think of the upright pentagram symbol as anything but sacred.
Broadly speaking, though I think it does depend on context. For instance, if practicing Satanists have attached a sacrificial victim to an upright pentagram, in order to worship Satan, then even if there may be a symbolic error on their part, that particular upright pentagram could safely be called Satanic and Satan would probably overlook the oversight.
The Church of Satan doesn’t believe in the devil. It doesn’t even recognise ‘Satan’ as a physical or spiritual being. As far as the Church is concerned, there is no such thing as heaven or hell.
And human sacrifice? Like, that kind of thing might happen in the Highest Orders of the Left-Hand Path, the Skull and Bones-type societies George W. Bush was a part of - so conspirators claim - like, I want to be expressly clear that suggesting Satanists make human sacrifices is akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists. Seriously. You're just discrediting a group of people who have enough troubles being recognized as valid to start.
I assure you, I have visited branches of the Church of Satan, and they are actually filled generally with very good people, whose philosophy is mostly that of self-love and not taking any bullshit, combined with the dogmatic practice of Ceremonial Magick.
It just wasn't my cup of tea. I have enjoyed more of what I've seen from Thelemic orders, which do not identify as Satanic.
Sure, it might happen, in only the most extreme cases, but it's certainly not the norm, and it makes people who try to take their faith seriously - even if, yes, LaVeyan Satanism is simply libertarian humanism combined with, quite honestly, a fairly weak system of Ceremonial Magick, if it makes them happy, let them do it.
I don't agree with Catholicism, either, but I'm not running around saying all priests rape little boys, even though there is far more evidence of that, than actual human sacrifice in Satanism.
The latter do tend towards being the awfully nice people you've been describing, who are always making sure that everyone is fine in the mosh pit.
The former, however, can conversely tend towards the type of person who is far too enthusiastic about the technical details of the blood gutters in their unnervingly large collection of ceremonial knives.
There are plenty of theistic Satanists I know who are also great people.
I got a giggle, since it's inverse is the symbol of Baphomet, and all that.
The Rituals of Freemasonry are something millions of people are shoved through, in the interest of what we call 'knife and fork Masonry' - this is the typical image of usually the largest Lodge in your City or Town, where businessmen congregate to drink beer and make connections.
There are few who take Freemasonry seriously for its rituals, and even fewer who choose to make it past the Blue Lodge (3°), and move on to the Scottish or York rites, which can go all the way up to 33°.
The 33rs Degree is basically an honour. There are very, very few of them. When someone tells me they had a friend of a friend who was a 33rd Degree Freemason I just smile and nod.
Freemasonry is about making 'good people better'. How much you get out of it is entirely dependant on how much you put into it.
If you want mass appeal you must appeal to the masses. Using loaded symbology is a good way to torch your hard work.
Throughout history five pointed star or its variations have been used in various cultures, ideologies etc. so I don't see it as a "deal breaker".
(I have no idea, but I've never seen bad association with an upright pentagram)