Hacker News Reader

Comment by seanmcdirmid | Hacker News Reader

The protesters are more working class than the richer HKers with multiple passports. Sure, they can leave, but it is much harder for them to establish themselves in a new country. They can buy a plane ticket, but then what?

View on HN

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's better than not having the option right? Many HKers have done this during the 90s when HK became part of China.

The richer ones did as a hedge, the poorer ones not really. There were more than a few economic immigrants from HK in the 60s, 70s and even 80s, but the jobs they could get were the ones we typically associate with economic immigrants (think Bruce Lee washing dishes at a restaurant, and the old China town feel). I’m not sure if that is very viable today.

They can do what the Chinese have done since the 19th century: move and adapt. It's what my family did. Easier said than done, but I feel it's pretty ingrained now when you can even find Chinese families in places like Africa.

It was much easier to move somewhere in the 19th century if you had the money.

Its essentially impossible to move to another 1st world country without years (or decades) of process + usually a highly valued university degree these days

Doesn't matter. imo Chinese people can still adapt. It's part of the culture. My family came to the US as illegal aliens with no money and poor education (their degrees weren't of much use). We still made it work. I know it's anecdotal, but there are a lot of anecdotes throughout Asia, Europe, the Americas, Africa, and even in the Middle East (it was surreal when I met a Chinese guy from Saudi Arabia who was looking for a potential 7th wife).

EDIT: it wasn't easy immigrating the US in the 19th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_sentiment_in_the_...

Don't understand why GP is downvoted. Of course Chinese people (like many others) can adapt, but how are you going into a country and stay there legally? For most people, asylum is hardly an option (though Germany has granted asylum to several leaders of the HK protests). If you don't go via asylum, you have to go via normal immigration routes, and they are normally either investment or skills based these days - you need lots of money or excellent education. You cannot just go and live in any country you want anymore (for most people).

> but how are you going into a country and stay there legally?

The same way startups figure out how to survive and eventually profit: by continuously adapting and continuously looking for opportunity. In our case, some of my relatives saved up enough "under the counter" money to pay a citizen to marry them until they were able to get a green card; after which they divorced. Others just married citizens. Others got enough education to get a work visa (I don't remember the details). You get the picture. It's a waste of time and energy, dwelling on what you don't have vs how to accomplish what you need to happen. I'm not saying that you should be ignorant of obstacles and challenges (you need to know what they are), but you need to focus on the openings & opportunities to get through. This is a generalization, but I feel that most if not all Asian cultures have this same spirit.

Here's a modern example.

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/article/1774417/how-modern-da...

I didn't downvote anyone on this thread

Ok, that's really funny. It would never in a million years occur to me to pay someone to marry me so I could live in some country. And, yes, some recent startups have skirted or crossed the line to illegality.

My point remains - nowadays (unlike a century ago, if I'm not mistaken), the majority of people can not choose in which country to live (legally, at any rate).

The past is often romanticized, but the reality is that it was never easy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/american-chinatowns-history_n...

I didn't say that your point was invalid. I'm just pointing out that when you're desperate enough to escape an authoritarian regime or other dangers, legality isn't as important of a consideration. There's plenty of grey areas to work in. ie if there's a will, there's a way

It wasn't exactly easier to have the money in the 19th century?

Southern Chinese, especially of fujian descent, do this, which is why they’ve spread so far in SE Asia, Taiwan, Africa, NYC, etc...

Cantonese are also known for emigrating.

It’s still hard, and it sucks to leave home because you can’t get a good deal there any longer.

> It’s still hard, and it sucks to leave home because you can’t get a good deal there any longer.

"good" deals in the past are a fantasy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_sentiment_in_the_...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/american-chinatowns-history_n...

It was always hard. The only thing that changes is the nature of the obstacles.

The pathway for foreigners to come into most countries is through a visa process, which are capital investment, work or asylum based.

For example, in the US an investment of $500k (will be $900k later this year) in certain businesses will land foreign individuals a green card. Otherwise, they'll need to come in through a family or work visa, latter of which can take years and has high barriers to entry, like requiring sponsorship or a specialized degree.

Those without means are going to have a hard time leaving the country legally.

Then don't do it legally. My family came to the US as illegals.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com