People that have children. Do you think it was honestly a good idea in retrospect, and if so, why? If your wife had been on the fence about having children, would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?
I think parenting, like school, is also a very high-effort, high-reward activity. Maybe while the negatives are easy to understand, the rewards are not so easily understood. "Give life to your offspring" just doesn't have the same ring as "make a ton of money" or "become the ruling class".
Also, it is nice to have a receptive audience to dad jokes.
> every week it gets a tiny bit easier
It doesn't have to be chaos and it doesn't have to be torture. It's all fairly subjective and I don't want to type out a novel. But, I do want to give you a bit of a different perspective.
I am very busy tending to these babies, keeping our home maintained, working, tending to our dogs, etc... I handle 50% of our feedings entirely by myself (feeding for us is code for: change baby, feed baby, burp baby, soothe baby, get baby onto their next activity or put down for a nap or sleep, and this is times 2 for our situation). We're walking the twins in the morning and the evening. We're bathing a baby every night, so they get a bath every other day right now. We play with them during the day and we read to them at night before bed.
Yet, I slept for just under 7 hours straight last night. My wife slept for 4 hours, pumped, and then went back to sleep. She leaves me a note on the bathroom counter every night so that I know if I need to wake her up or not. I can hear that she is waking up now and so after this comment I am going to head upstairs and I'll be feeding both of the twins again by myself while she pumps and we get ready for that morning walk. I also worked out twice this week and since Sunday have gone for 2 hour-long runs. I have another run today, whenever I can find the spare hour. Another workout tomorrow. Saturday is a day off. We'll play with the twins as much as they'll have it. We don't really have any help in the house, it's overwhelmingly just my wife and I. We're making things work and things are working well. I've been told by people IRL not to say these sorts of things out loud. I've been told to "stop bragging" about how my infants sleep at night. So, personally, I've found that I don't really care to say much about it.
edit/ I'd do well to note that I work full-time remote and that makes a world of difference in our outcomes. If I had to commute to an office, no doubt that I'd be exercising much less and we'd not be eating very well right now.
I feel like the stress is much higher than it would be without kids, but the rewards are higher as well. Managed well it can be more than worth it, but doing it when you aren't prepared makes it hurt that much more.
The negatives are real but they are outweighed by overwhelming positives. In my experience, there was a new level of satisfaction achieved after becoming a father that made it worth every sacrifice.
To offer a counter-point, my daughter is 18 and off to college (literally dropping her off this saturday), and my son is 15. With each moment that passes from the time they are born, things get easier ... sleep? improves. complete and utter dependency? they learn to wipe their own bum. So, all the things that _seem_ really bad that people are reporting here are, ultimately, rather temporary.
That's not to say there aren't new challenges that come once they get older, and some challenges aren't experienced by everyone (I feel incredibly lucky and blessed that I haven't had any behavioral issues with my kids). So ... yeah ... they're not little parasites forever, just keep that in mind :P
On a more pragmatic note, the idea that brains change when you have kids to make you more nurturing and empathetic sounds good for a career. It would help with communications and teamwork to be stronger in those areas.
Re: "completely insane to voluntarily sign up for that" I hear the same thing here often about joining or running a startup and putting in 100+ hours per week.
The only reason I regret having kids is because of the planet they will be inheriting, and all of the shit they will have to deal with.
Crucial difference is that you can (ethically) quit the startup if you decide it isn't worth it.
Having kids was the best reason not to commit suicide I've ever had.
Having children is a life experience. A hard one, that will change you. It is certainly not the easy route. If you want a life of low stress and self satisfaction - having no kids makes a lot of sense. And I'd never begrudge anyone who makes this choice (of which I know many).
Choosing to have a family means you are willing to sacrifice your own goals to some extent. I think you could say the same about any relationship - you generally have to give up some of your own time and or desires to make a relationship work, whether short term or long term. Having kids is probably the most extreme version of this.
What do you get out of it? Life long companionship, for one thing. And a very unique experience, that only other parents can ever understand.
Not necessarily. I know many people who have quite strained relationships with their parents/children. I have relatives who had children based on the mindset of "who will take care of me when I'm old?", only for their kids to mistreat and abandon them in their old age.
It is difficult. The first year is hard. It’s hard to even draw parallels to. You know how it’s like to learn to ride a bike or a new language or play a musical instrument when you’ve never played one before? It’s like that almost everyday for the first few months at least. You will be sleep deprived. You will be in auto pilot doing things you wonder how/why you did it.
But the reward is amazing! You have the opportunity to do right in the world. You can raise kids that’ll add sanity to your worldview. I’m raising my kids to be empathetic and kind human beings. My older one unprompted goes to the shy kid on the playground and involves him/her. That’s so rewarding to see. He cares for his brother to the extent that he’ll ask us to go “let it go” when we try to get the younger one through his tantrum.
Now, why was it the best thing to happen to me professionally? 2 things: 1. Something better be a fucking good reason for me to spend time on it. Stupid meeting? Sorry, I’m busy I’m walking out to do other work. Random chit chat in a meeting that’s running late? I’m cutting that shit down. I’ve learned to value my time like execs value their time. I’m not rude but I have become very particular. Something has to be worth my time to take me away from spending time with my kids. 2. After parenting most things feel easy to me. Exec presentation? Give me an hour. Train a new person with a bad attitude. Pfft. I can handle that without getting upset. Deal with an aggressive Engineering Manager. Yeah I got skills to calm this person down. Stand up for the quite colleague in the corner? You bet I’ve noticed it and intervened to seek their input.
It has been my observation and experience that if you don’t do so patronizingly, a lot of how to talk to a child can be applied to grown ups with marvelous results.
All of this though is if you’re ready for it. I knew I was when I realized I wanted to share my view of the world with someone I was caring for. Good luck!
Long story short, I did have kids and it was the right decision. And if I were able to talk to myself when I was struggling with the decision, I would say "Don't miss this experience. There is nothing else in life like it. It is hard but it is worth it."
If your scared how it will affect your life, maybe it isn't for you. It's not how kids work, you make it work, period. Either you do it or you don't. Whether it's a good idea is very irrelevant.
Also, join something like https://www.peps.org, a parenting organization.
Having a deep bench of helpers and pre qualified play mates is crucial. It can't just be the parents vs their kids 24/7.
In terms of sleep she usually sleeps from midnight until 4-5 when she will wake up to be fed, but often I don't even wake up now (yes, she is in the same room).
During the first 4 years of fatherhood, I did triatholons and ran ultra-marathons - primairly ultras as the crowd was far more relaxed. After our second was born I decided to take up powerlifting, worked up to a 1405 total.
I've recently decided to go back to endurance events as being 230lbs of raw strength isn't conducive to life, plus our grocery bill is higher due to that. So I'm swimming and dropping weight; running at 230 (now 210) was terrible and humbling all at once.
My wife did half-marathons and now does cross-fit.
During these different 'eras' we exposed our children to our activities and they partook when interested, they are highly interested in riding their bikes and run as they please. Though they prefer volleyball and gymnastics at the moment.
They only negative, is they can't sit for school, as school only offers one recess during the day.
You learn to value, care for, and depend on others more in a way that’s hard to do otherwise.
And kids are great fun. Seeing them discover new things is wonderful.
Having kids is big both my wife’s and my quality world so we don’t regret it. It is really hard a lot though too.
You learn to live a life of service which the world needs more of.
The only real concern I have about having a child is I don't know what kind of world he's entering.
It's better for the environment (the mountain of plastic and CO2 that having kids causes is astounding) and there are plenty of people in the world that are passionate about having kids.
Always been on the fence, keep hoping I want to have kids some day, because I sure don't want to go into it with a negative attitude. I don't want to "miss out" and regret having lived a childless life when I'm 70, but I sure don't want anything about that lifestyle today. My wife seems to be much the same way. We always talk about "some day, if we have kids.." but nearing our 40s, some day doesn't seem to come.
I absolutely believe it must be rewarding in a way I cannot imagine -- just as most 'worthwhile' pursuits that take time and effort and learning and growth are. And precisely because the benefits are non-obvious (I don't really enjoy anything about being around children). I've found raising pets to be far more rewarding than I could have imagined, so I'm sure children must be 100 or 1000x that reward.
But, just like I don't need to take on every challenge the world has to offer (someone else can die on Everest, others can become passionate about their skydiving hobby), I'll pick and choose my challenges.
Having kids gives you a chance in making a more significant impression than just exist and disappear.
I don't think anyone should have children because it helps them come to terms with their own mortality.
It's easier to make an impression on someone if you are nearly constantly around them through their most impressionable years, starting at or near birth.
If you aren't the actual (natural or adoptive) parent, the actual parents will probably get tired of you trying to do this relatively quickly, unless you have an unusual relationship with them.
> and if so, why?
Yes. Chemical change in my brain / body causing me to love those little buggers more than life itself.
No. A bit of free time and piece and quiet would be nice occasionally and to selfishly do what I want, when I want, how I want.
> would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?
At the time of the first born, most definitely. But girlfriend got pregnant "fairly" young at 24. She wanted to keep it, no further discussion had.
In retrospect, that is a very hard one. Very much aware of the "grass is greener" paradigm and to be "happy with what you got". But overall, I don't think I would change anything.
If you don't want children, don't worry about it. Population increases exponentially.
No, it does not any more. See talks of Hans Rosling.
TL;DR: YOLO/FOMO.
I've raised great kids, and the world is better off for them being in it.