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Comment by djsumdog | Hacker News Reader

I wish Hollywood studios would create more new original stuff. There was a meme circulated around a few weeks back with a movie theater sign with Childsplay, Toy Story 4, Godzilla, Aladdin and Men in Black on it with the title, "The 90s called and want their movies back."

I get that older movies with established franchises can be secure bets to bring in money, but there's a lot of diminishing returns. I feel some people just see these releases in the theaters because there's nothing else released.

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Lots of original movies are released - probably more than ever. It is just that the public prefers names they know, so the sequels/prequel/reboots/adaptions generate more money and attention.

Just look at all the attention this announcement gets. You don't get a HN thread because some studio announce they will film an original story from an unknown screenwriter.

Not sure, you might be right about the quantity, but what about the quality?

This is a common, modern, signal-to-noise problem. There's more media than there's ever been. In absolute terms, there's more good media, too! It's just not very large percentage of the total media available.

>Lots of original movies are released - probably more than ever. It is just that the public prefers names they know

In the 80s and 90s we had bladerunner, the original matrix of course, we had alien and a significant amount of mainstream, big name fiction. Yes, retro movies have always existed but alongside the creation of entirely new genres, in particular in science fiction. We had Gibson alongside others creating the entirely new cyberpunk subgenre that influenced many of these original movies.

What exactly is the equivalent of this today? Yes we have some new stuff, I liked Ted Chiang's Arrival for example, but is there a big new future oriented wave of genuinely new fiction? I don't see it at all.

The 80s and 90s are a 20 year period. So you shouldn't compare it to "today", you should compare it to another 20 year period. And it is not even 20 years since the end of the 90's.

>And it is not even 20 years since the end of the 90's

it's 2019 mate, the original matrix movie actually is 20 years old as of last month, doesn't feel like it to me either but here we are.

But of course the point isn't to haggle about a year or two, really this cultural stagnation in mainstream fiction has been going on since I'd say at least the mid 2000s. The wave of marvel movie reproductions has been happening for a while, the first Iron Man came out in 2008 and ever since then it seems mainstream cinema has moved more and more to generic, established aesthetics and stories.

My point is if you look at the last 20 years you will also find a lot of good movies. If you don't like Marvel or Star Wars movies, watch something else, there is plenty to chose from.

Yeah if you look at movie marketing, the spending is focused on the big, safe "tentpole" movies. If you don't seek out movies to your own taste, it might seem like the blockbusters are the only ones getting produced.

Annihilation, Dark City, Riddick Chronicles, Babylon A.D., Guardians of The Galaxy, Fast and Furious, Hummingbird, Transporter, Crank, Hardcore Henry, Revolver, Lucy, Ghost in The Shell, Now you see me, Passengers, Transcendence, Maze Runner, Limitless...

I think we've had a good run; I also think it's easy to be biased and not see it because of some nostalgia-effect of sorts. If you are f.e. 30+ you might more easily dismiss a movie as Limitless or Lucy as uncredible; both are based on a common myth that we only utilize a low percentage of our brains capacity, as an example, so they are that: unrealistic. But I think that's an unfair comparison because of an inherent bias that when you think about a movie like The Matrix you don't see it with the same critical lens because you perhaps had less knowledge of the world in your earlier years. #JustAFewThoughts

> But I think that's an unfair comparison because of an inherent bias that when you think about a movie like The Matrix you don't see it with the same critical lens because you perhaps had less knowledge of the world in your earlier years.

Nah, the worst BS explanation in The Matrix was just as immediately triggering, even though I was younger. The difference is that:

(1) the rest of the movie contradicted the nonsense explanation (in part because it wasn't the actual concept, but a revision added in narration only without revising the rest of the film (or the sequels) around it in response to test audiences confusion with the explanation that the creators originally had in mind), and

(2) the narration providing it was given to a character that, while set up as the “wise mentor”, it was pretty critical to the entire series was unreliable narrator.

I think it's a matter of phases. There will be a glut of retreads, people will yearn for something new. Something new and good will come out and be wildly successful. This will inspire a glut of novel stuff much of which will be mediocre. People will turn back to the tried-and-true including retreads of successful recent innovations. Rinse, repeat.

I'm deliriously happy. If you'd showed 15 year old me the slate of Marvel movies released in the last 10 years, I'd have freaked out. The kids these days don't know they're born.

No, it is always the same. People say they want something new and original, but they will actually go and see something they already have a relationship to.

I'm pretty sure lost of people here who are critical of a Matrix sequel will go and see it anyway, if nothing else just to be able to complain.

If we reframe the discussion a tiny bit, The Matrix is a terrible example of an original story. Its almost the exact same category as Star Wars. Classic heros journey, pastiching tons of other familiar works they decided were influencial (in this case sci fi, cyberpunk, philosophy, religion, anime, hong kong action, karate..) all wrapped in a very tightly defined worldbuilding bow. These kinds of movies resonate and last precisely because of how derivative and unoriginal they are. They are giants standing on the shoulders of other giants.

None of that is intended to diminish the movie in any way.

It's not really Star Wars (which isn't quite original either; borrowed heavily from WW2 and various Sci-Fi/Fantasy blends), but more Simulation and Simulacra (I think the creators even talked about that book being one of their influences).

I mean, all stories tend to follow a Hero's Journey. It's difficult to create a good/entertaining story that doesn't.

That reference is the book in the movie where Neo puts his stash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6R94keJcHk

I said it's like star wars in that they are both heavily deravitive pastiches, collages of past pop culture remixed. I defined their category as: hero journey, pastiche, over the top world building. I didn't say the matrix was derived from star wars. They are akin to each other, in that they exhibit the same properties.

Many perceive movies from their youth as the most original, since it was the first time they met the ideas and tropes.

When they see a newer films rehashing the same tropes, they consider them unoriginal, without realizing that the "original" film was also just recycled ideas.

> there's a lot of diminishing returns.

is there? I feel that these remakes are making way too much money for way too little "original effort". People, despite what they say, still go to watch it.

> but there's a lot of diminishing returns

Disney disagrees. Have a look at the box office of their live action remakes:

- Beauty and the Beast: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=beautyandthebeast20...

- Aladdin: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=disneyfairytale2201...

- The Lion King: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=lionkingliveaction....

Why wouldn't they keep making the same movies over and over with billion dollar returns like that?

The '90s were twenty years ago. It's not that long, but about the same amount as time between the original Star Wars and The Phantom Menace. Or between the Batman movie with Adam West and Tim Burton's Batman. And it was only 34 years from the silent version of Ben Hur to the Technicolor classic.

Think about this, since it's the 50th anniversary of Woodstock. When that festival happened, rock and roll[1] music wasn't even 20 years old.

[1] https://www.knkx.org/post/we-agree-was-first-ever-recorded-r...

True and the mind boggles how much they are spending on trash, and how much they are raking in.

Just Disney projected hitting 7 billion dollar blockbusters this year. Look at the titles - Aladdin, Lion King, Toy Story 4, Star Wars, Frozen 2, Avengers End Game, Capt Marvel. There is nothing new there.

Calling these blockbusters "trash" is just elitist bullshit. They are good movies. While I myself prefer Tarantino to Frozen, I would not want a 10 year old kid to see Once upon a time in Hollywood, and you are stolid if you do.

> There is nothing new there.

I would say there are no new stories and there haven't been for a long time.

What is the Iliad if not a superhero movie? You have the world's greatest warrior, Achilles, a demigod, unbeatable except for his one super-weakness. Sound familiar?

Something I find interesting about all the recent superhero movies is that the battles are staged very much like ancient battles - soldiers in formation fighting hand to hand. This of course gives the heroes the opportunity to be heroic on the field. And again it's just like the Iliad.

I wish Hollywood studios would create more new original stuff.

One the other hand there are now more Not-Hollywood studios releasing more original stuff than ever before and it's easier than ever before to actually see those films (although perhaps not at the cinema).

Globally I feel this era (last 20 years) is not good soil to innovations. Change in tech made people somehow focus on visuals. Change in medias (TV shows becoming premium quality) took some from hollywood. Also the new generation has .. no grit.

It's a cycle, 90s kids are in their 30s now, with money to spend on 90s fashion, movies, etc. in 2019

I remember the same arguments in the 90's, everything was a remake of something from the 70's.

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