Cathay CEO lists self instead of giving names to CCP | Hacker News Reader

Cathay CEO lists self instead of giving names to CCP

taiwannews.com.tw

180 pointsGordonS44 comments

I'd want to see independent confirmation of this. It's a beautiful story, but here's another media report (by the SCMP, owned by Alibaba, but still regarded somewhat trustworthy by and large):

"Cathay Pacific Airways’ handover of crew details ‘satisfies mainland Chinese regulator’"

"CEO Rupert Hogg threatened to sack any employee who actively supported the protest movement, including taking part in the illegal airport demonstrations."

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/transport/article/302288...

I don't trust any mainland China sources at this point. Regardless of track record.

The South China Morning Post is a Hong Kong newspaper operating out of Hong Kong (albeit purchased by the Alibaba group in 2016). Their reputation has gone down, but they're not a "mainland China source".

Doesn't matter where they're situated if that's their owners.

So why was he fired then?

This might have been a few weeks ago, afterwards he resigned and the news that he didn't hand over (more) names is the latest story it seems. Although, i doubt you can trust Alibaba (or any mainland) related news on this regardless.

perhaps, but there's a difference between communicating to employees not to get involved in politics, and actually ratting them out, or not.

Honestly don’t think the two are mutually exclusive - I.e. Hogg was willing to fire employees actively participating, but not willing to hand their names over, and that a the regulator “saved face” by saying the filing satisfied it’s request (which may have been technically true if not in spirit). It will be interesting to see if we ever really find out what happened.

Agreed, there's a lot of uncertainty at this point. It could be a true story, and it would explain why he suddenly "resigned", but so far I've only see it circulate in dodgy WhatsApp groups. The article cites "local Hong Kong media reports", but I haven't seen it in the English language HK news (HKFP, SCMP, The Standard), and I don't read Cantonese...

Do you think the Chinese regulator would have backed down so easily (or in fact at all) to such a challenge to its authority?

That does not mean he did not do it. It means that if he did do it he was then essentially fired over it and Cathay Pacific then complied and provided the information.

UK sources are not reporting anything in line with what the politician in the referenced social media post is claiming.

Instead we have comments like this from the Independent:

> [Cathay Pacific] said it would comply with a directive from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC), which ban any employees who took part in the protests from working on mainland China-bound flights.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/cathay-...

and from the BBC:

> Last week, Cathay Pacific had told its staff it would not stop them joining the pro-democracy demonstrations currently sweeping Hong Kong.

> But on Monday, Mr Hogg warned staff they could be fired if they "support or participate in illegal protests".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49367949

It is certainly possible this is true, but I find it troubling this story is at the top of HN without other reliable sources backing it up.

> Last week, Cathay Pacific had told its staff it would not stop them joining the pro-democracy demonstrations currently sweeping Hong Kong.

> But on Monday, Mr Hogg warned staff they could be fired if they "support or participate in illegal protests".

Not sure that's contradictory. You're allowed to go to the legal protests, but you'll get fired if you do something illegal.

I think it is valid to check the sources... However let's not get bogged down in the details and forget that a gigantic totalitarian nation is crushing the human rights of its citizens and trying to subvert the human rights of people in other nations. We must take action!

The tree of liberty must be periodically watered with blood of Patriots and Tyrants.

I would also like to see more independent confirmation, maybe by interviewing Mr. Hogg himself. I don't think the mainland media would corroborate a story like this, it doesn't really paint the CCP in a good light.

This would be a major scoop for NY Times, BBC, WSJ, Le Monde or any other large, Western publication. It's a story that has everything that resonates in a "CCP vs democracy" framework so it's a bit too sursprising that nobody else has picked it up. Hogg has resigned so i don't see what more damage it would cause him if he agreed to an interview.

Two thing are not mutually exclusive.

Would the people protesting be better off being Sacked by CX or have their names in a CCP's Watch List?

As to some comment asking how would they know employees were protesting. The reason was many of them went on Strike ( or Sick Leaves as it is officially called ) on that day, CCP wanted a list of employees that were reported on Sick Leave.

Swire ( Parent Company of Cathay ) were already under immense pressure from Beijing.

And somehow, the announcement of Rupert Hogg Resigned made it on Beijing TV broadcast 30 min before HKEX ( That is SEC in the HK ) and Cathay made the announcement. That night, many of the Cathay Employees either deleted some of their post on the movement on Social Media or had their whole profile deleted. And the Cathay pilot making the announcement on plane about the protest in Hong Kong so passenger are aware of what is happening, is no longer working in Cathay.

Once is Chances. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.

Weibo users are insulting their stewardesses who support HK.

https://m.weibo.cn/search?containerid=100103type%3D1%26q%3D%...

Comments like "She's so ugly, you can find hundreds of millions of Chinese prettier then her" "Cathay is a hive of cockroaches".

China‘s ICBC rated it as "strong sell". https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-13/china-s-b...

This whole thing most likely will come to an end in September, in one way or another, before the 70th anniversary of China takes place, couples with this period of heated party in-fighting, no inharmony will be tolerated, something could happen.

Fwiw, they tend to prefer "flight attendant" to "stewardess".

Edit: Not kidding, they are sensitive about it.

In many ways this was absolutely the best the CEO could have done. It seemed inevitable that he would resign, but its great to see that he didn't sell out his employees - which a few weeks ago seemed like.

A good way to be remembered positively during this situation.

If this is true (and from his resignation, it would seem that way), this is very refreshing news.

There are horrible examples throughout history (Argentina in the '70s, where German automakers volunteered their left-leaning employees) of what amounted to business leaders giving up employees' lives to opaque regimes to ensure further profit for themselves and their companies.

This may or may not have resulted in anything as extreme as that, but credit where credit is due.

Now, ask yourself : would your boss do the same for you ?

Obviously No.

Would you do the same for your peers? I would. If you doubt yourself, you may want to look for a better job for your soul.

Easy to write it on HN until you're in the situation.

I always wondered with the social credit score system, how long until something like that is extended to the rest of the world, HK seems like a natural place to start, as would the developing world.

With chilling, but not entirely unexpected consequences:

Indicating the intimate involvement of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) in the investigation of the airline, Hogg's resignation was first made public by Chinese state-run media outlet CCTV at 4:50 p.m. on Aug. 16. It was not until 5:14 p.m. that Cathay Pacific itself officially announced that Hogg was stepping down as CEO, leading to speculation that his resignation was the result of pressure from Beijing authorities.

I don't really get it - why would the company know which of their employees was or was not part of this or any other protest?

They got unpaid leave from work to participate.

If you threaten executives with fines, jail, shutdown etc. , they can feel very motivated to find out.

I don't think accurate information is the point.

More importantly is the employees know that the company is even "asking" or "checking" and word to get out... and now you've got people afraid, even who don't work for the airline.

Similar to show trials or anything else, it doesn't matter what the situation with that case is, it matters that everyone sees it.

Employees who called in sick or failed to report for duty that day.

This is a typical CEO move. If you have to do something that seems honest and good, at least make sure you get credit for it.

Make no mistake, this is the equivalent action of the type of Oskar Schindler's. CCP wanted those names so they could eventually disappear them.

Better yet to pressure companies to not hire / fire anyone who is on a list... that way folks can see "what happens" to people who don't do "the right thing".

The general population will find that quite upsetting.

You mean like James Demore and Bret Weinstein?

Mr. Rupert Hogg I salute you!

Make no mistake. If China has a GDP 2x the US and the US business are heavily reliant on China we’ll also be licking Xi’s boot. You already see it with how Hollywood kowtows to China with the hopes that it can get a movie into the country. Trump’s tariffs are not popular with many but it is breaking dependence on China’s supply chain and manufacturing.

Trump just continued for a second time a special allowance for Huawei to purchase components from US companies so the notion that there is any sort of coherent trade policy directed at China by the current administration seems suspect. I opposed the TPP on numerous grounds but I do wish a less cumbersome trade agreement in a similar vein with the same partners had been enacted.

The lack of a unified trade policy is easier to understand if you bear in mind that it's actually a huge team of people negotiating on the US side, almost all of which none of us have heard of before. It's definitely not Trump hashing a deal out on the top floor of his office: he's probably providing some executive direction, but even then he has other things demanding his time.

He was asked to step down

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