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I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling professionals

I can relate to that part of the note. With one (minor?) exception, I've never seen a proper doctor about my issues, but I've been to a number of counselors over the years. Almost all of them have been completely useless to me, because I can clearly see that I'm not safe there.

I think it's a bit like the situation Mr. Zeller faced. I don't want to go far into my issues, because this isn't the place for that and, even if it were, my issues are nothing compared to his, but suffice it to say that in high school I was pretty concerned about my ability to manage my anger. I managed to tell a guidance counselor this, one I'd known since I started high school (she had first been my French teacher, then was assigned to me when she transitioned into counseling), and asked to be referred to a counselor before I hurt someone.

When I was with the counselor, however, although I was there explicitly because I was worried about hurting people, I was always measured in my responses. I limited what I said because I was always trying to determine where exactly the line was where a counselor becomes legally obligated to report me to someone, and I tried my damnedest to stay on my side of that line. It limited what I said, and it limited how much I could get out of the experience, and so ultimately everything broke down and the counselor more or less told me to come back when I was willing to actually talk. I ended up getting basically nothing out of the experience, except for some extra time with my grandparents since they lived near the counselors office. Considering my grandfather died in April, and I still think of him every day, I suppose I should be grateful for the experience because even if I got fuck all out of the actual counseling, I still got to see my grandparents more.

One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend, but someone that helps you solve your problems with professional advice (level of competency varies of course).

Getting over any recurrent destructive mood is much like a war. First you need to go to war, then you need strategies, you need to work on it and there's going to be pain involved, with multiple battles won and lost.

Going to counseling is one way to do it, another would be medication, or support groups or just good friends that care. Either way you have to deal with it and it isn't warm and cozy.

One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend

For a person dealing with trust issues, this sort of realization shatters any chance of progress, at least in my personal experience.

I can't feel safe if I think I could say the wrong word and have the cops drag me off for questioning. That's why I never got anywhere with counseling. For a person with trust issues, it's extremely important that you feel safe in counseling since you're making yourself extremely vulnerable by exposing yourself to them.

I've since dealt with a lot of my issues on my own. I haven't hurt myself intentionally in over two years, and that was an anomaly. It had been over two years since I had last hurt myself at that point.

The point is that these aren't easy problems, and there are no easy solutions.

If you are still afraid of crossing some sort of invisible line where your doctor/counselor is required to report you, then I would suggest that you research that a bit so that you know where that line is yourself. Then you can evaluate whether or not you think that you'll be able to fully open up without worrying about crossing that line. It may be worth the time/effort that you put into the research.

And fortunately counselors and doctors are humans as well, and you can find ones that will care personally about you. In this case "friend" is a loaded term, because of course it is true that you are paying for professional services, but on the other hand, friendship is not exactly a well-defined term, and there are some pretty tenuous and abusive reasons underlying a lot of real friendships.

I've had a couple really good counselors, and the sense of trust and genuine caring is actually better than with most friends. Part of it is that there are no social dynamics to worry about within a group of friends, and another is that this person is a professional who has a much greater chance of having the tools and experience to deal with what are very difficult and private issues.

Now my issues were not with trust, so I'm not trying to say that trust is easy. All I'm saying is that there are counselors out there who are worthy of your trust.

One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend, but someone that helps you solve your problems with professional advice

Depending on the situation, it can take a patient a lot of time to even begin to have this thought.

My experience with counseling inclines me to say that you took fuck all out of the counseling, not the other way around. It sounds like your issue in high school wasn't just anger, it was anger that might hurt someone. That's a part of the problem that needs to be addressed, even if a counselor deems it necessary to report you.

But — obviously nothing is that black and white, especially not after just a few sentences of background information. Just as there are crap professors, there are crap counselors. If you ever give it another shot, I'd suggest seeing a few of them (first sessions can usually be free) and finding one you feel comfortable with.

I agree that it might not be the right place to get really deep into this. Feel free to email me.

I didn't think there was imminent danger of hurting anyone, just that if I left it unchecked it could get to a stage where eventually I couldn't control it anymore. I was there seeking guidance on how to stop something from potentially becoming an issue, but I was always mindful that someone could see it as a more imminent threat than I believed it was, and would report me.

I have trust issues in addition to the anger issues (the anger issues are mostly controlled now, though the trust issues remain) and so I could never feel free to open up to a counselor because that would make me vulnerable. If you have a minor problem but opening up leaves you vulnerable to major complications, then you're understandably less likely to open up because the risk isn't worth the reward.

Counselors are a bit like HR. In theory, they can help you, but in practice they're often not worth the risk since putting anything into "official channels" makes everything formal and there are rigid procedures to follow. I'd rather talk to a friend than a counselor, just like it's often better to informally take problems up with your manager rather than reporting the issue to HR.

I think that what killed him is mistrusting other people.

He said he never talked to nobody about his situation, but it's impossible to have a good relationship with a great secret like that. He mentions his darkness, but I don't think that's what ended his relationships.

He also mentions counselors reading notes from previous sessions, but to me that's a sign they were doing their job properly; as they say "the devil's in the details".

I replied to you, seeing that you've got the same problems. I've suffered depression at some point, I can relate (somewhat), and I've gotten over it by being sincere about my problems with everybody and by fixing whatever I could fix (instead of hiding / ignoring them).

I hear that in his words as well. It's as if he was scared that people with his secret could hurt him again somehow. I'd say that's understandable.

I've never had a counselor actually read notes in front of me. They do have notes, and they do read them, but not while we're in a session. When that happened to him I imagine he felt more like a patient than a peer (for lack of a better word). It's disappointing to me because that's what counselors are for — they're supposed to create an opportunity for someone like Bill to open up. It's clear to me he didn't like holding his trauma as a secret but was afraid of it being used against him somehow.

Relationships are just an escape. He was aware of himself enough to know that, which is (was) a good sign. Darkness like his allows you to feel like you're head over heels in love in one moment, and then in another wonder WTF the point is if we're just going to die anyway. It's as if it were a drug. And like a drug, its efficacy fades over time.

Good for you for being able to be honest and open about your problems! That takes balls.

One technique that's worked while I'm in a depressed state is to just expect & accept it. When I get into a funk and think about how all I do is feel depressed, I tell myself, "No shit Yogi, of course you're going to feel this way, look at all the crap you have to deal with". Those few words don't get rid of the sad feeling, but it helps me get past it. I feel like that's all most people need, a way to get on with it.

Even after years of therapy, I'm still amazed at how trained our brains can become. Unfortunately for many, that hard wiring forces them into a downward spiral, where from it's harder and harder to recover.

Yogi If I may - I will highly suggest you read Power of Now - chunk at a time, randomly, start to end whatever fits your bill. I see the seeds of acceptance in you so may be you have already read it - if not, please do.

While reading the suicide note, and the 2 threads on this, i could not help wondering many many times how much it would have helped Bill had he read the Power of Now. One problem i notice is that people who are stuck in a problem, keep trying the same solution for decades even though its not worked. We need to look at our problem from other angles and be open to new solutions.

That's exactly why depression is so hard to shake. You beat yourself up repeatedly without even knowing it and wonder why the heck you can't just snap out of it.

Sometimes I wonder how my counselor deals with telling me the same thing again and again for months. And then I sign her check :)

Seems like this is a book worth checking out, thanks!

Its only worth it if you practice it. And it gets easier with practice. Since you mention your counselor, i assume you have been depressed. One big problem (to put it briefly) is that often depressed people identify with their depression/sadness and don't wish to leave it. They are their biggest enemy. You have to be willing to give it up. At the expense of sounding cliched, the only price to pay for happiness, is your unhappiness/misery and for many, its a huge price. Best of luck. Happiness and freedom do exist. What Bill Zeller spoke off does exist and is possible.

> "I will never know what uncontimated intimacy is like. I will never have an exclusive bond with someone, someone who can be the recipient of all the love I have to give."

So much of what he talks of, even i have suffered _without_ having been sexually abused. He did not realize that many feeling/thoughts he had, come and go in all humans, if they come to his mind. It's fine to just ignore them like all the dust that flies about us.

Please also check out the youtubes of one Mooji. They have greatly deepened my practice.

'Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around. Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.'

Reminds of an unattributed quote I heard somewhere:

Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.