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Comment by ryanwaggoner | Hacker News Reader

Don't just vote him down, folks...he's posting links and support for his position. Surely someone on HN is knowledgeable enough on this subject to respond with something more detailed than clicking a down arrow...

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It's pretty clear this is a troll account (ie, one that exists to post controversial statements in order to cause grief). Here are some examples:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1782355

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1935416

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1994504

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2041013

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2027532

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2018434

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2018405

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1881991

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1935387

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1919731

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1914963

I think the best response here is to down-vote and not engage beyond the sensible rebuttal that has been posted.

those posts are my honest replies. I don't invoke name calling and try to backup everything with sources. I do get downvoted a lot here, I do not have multiple accounts or use my account "as a troll account." My postings are sincere and I honestly have a dissenting viewpoint in general both online and offline. My friends often remark that I like debates. If you disagree with me, let me know. My philosophy in debating is that I either abandon my argument by learning new facts about what I was wrong about, or my argument stands. I live in the Portland Oregon area and if you would like to meet me for a beer I can attest to this. Thanks

Debate is pointless if you ignore contrary evidence.

For example, it's pretty clear that you are anti-vaccine. It's fine to hold that opinion, but as I'm sure you've seen the overwhelming evidence against your point of view I don't see any need in re-hashing the arguments.

In cases like this you may not be consciously trolling, but in my view arguing a dissenting view in the face of such overwhelming evidence exhibits the same damaging behavior patterns that a troll engages in. Given that, I think the appropriate response is exactly the same as the response to a troll, ie: a perfunctory link to counter evidence on Wikipedia (for the sake of casual readers), and a downvote.

I down voted because none of those links add to the debate in a useful manner. See my reply.

I agree that some analysis for laypeople would be useful, but that's part of what I love about HN: an expert in this topic might come along soon and offer such an analysis. I think having a voice of dissent that offers something other than hyperbole and unsupported hand-waving is useful, and shouldn't be discouraged.

Right I will come right out and say what I implied in my full reply to the "dissenter". What they posted is hyperbol and unsupported hand-waving.

None of what they posted is useful in making a decision one way or another on the subject.

I can't understand the title of the study they posted let alone the contents and I have never heard of the journal which maybe is the preeminent publication of its field or a dirty rag which the publisher's mate "peer reviews". I have no way of knowing from the comment and posting the abstract provides nothing.

The second one is a blog of an Autism organisation in New York that doesn't link to anything that I can use to gauge its authority.

And the third is talking about a single scientist in the opposing side of the debate (there is only one person refuting these claims? Really?) who was caught with his hand in the till. Hardly proof or otherwise on the debate at hand.

So I stand by my downvote.

Whereas I think that anyone who drags Thimerosal into this debate -- roughly a decade after it was removed from vaccines in response to mass hysteria -- deserves to have a bucket of water poured over their head and sent home.

Just because an argument isn't made out of unsupported hand-waving doesn't mean that it isn't recycled garbage. Citations and glib technical language can be copied and pasted just as easily as mindless rants.

It is not enough to hold debates. One must also have the guts to draw conclusions.

Meanwhile, what's conspicuously missing from this particular cloud of chaff is a concise summary of the most recent epidemiological data. Should we not have plenty of that by now? Thanks to Wakefield, we have conducted an "experiment" over the last decade or so: Hysteria is up, and the vaccination rate is down. As a result, the incidence of preventable disease is measurably higher. Surely, if there is a correlation between autism and vaccination, the autism rate must now be significantly lower in these new unvaccinated populations? Or can we at least try to establish how many more kids have to suffer or die before we can draw that conclusion?

Read the inserts to the vaccine. "Thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is not used in the manufacturing process for the single dose presentations; therefore these products contain no preservative. The multi-dose presentation contains thimerosal, added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 mcg of mercury. " From: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines...

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