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Comment by cc439 | Hacker News Reader

Doesn't that defeat the entire point of fitness training?

I read an article recently talking about how e-bike users get the same amount of exercise as normal bikers because they tend to ride farther and more frequently. Same thing would likely happen with this.

link to article?

I think it’s probably this link which has been in the news recently https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S259019821930017X

Please don't linke to elsevier after all they have "done" for the scientific community.

Feel free not to follow the links - but please don’t tell others what to do and not do.

It was a plea not an order and I will do that every other day again.

Politely asking people to stop supporting industries that hurt society is one of the ways we make society better; he asked, not told.

Ironically you are doing the exact same thing, politely asking them to stop doing something you don't like.

Maybe it would've been more constructive to link to the sci-hub copy of the paper, rather than complaining?

Asking somebody to stop supporting terrible institutions isn't complaining. Maybe you could help them find the link instead of complaining that they didn't?

The article measured time and distance, but not calories.

well there has to be a limit to that surely, because there are people who don't have e-bikes and bike everywhere. There's only so much biking one can possibly do no matter the assistance, because of the need for sleep and the limitations of a mortality.

I've seen e-biker users absolutely blast past me headed up hills, not even breathing hard. They may get the same "amount" of exercise, but not definitely not the same quality.

If you have equipment that allows you to exert yourself and you've able to exert yourself to maximum capacity as any similar piece of equipment for that sport, yes, you'll get just as good a workout, but the reality is that once you have assistance you're most likely not exerting yourself as much because it's not required or because the assistance is allowing you to go further with less effort, but you don't exercise for as long because your route is of fixed length.

I could totally see that. I live in an area with lots of very steep hills which would be murder to bike up, so I just don't bike. I never even considered that I could just get an E-bike to deal with them and then start biking everywhere.

As the article highlights, the main target are military and medical applications.

It looks like it's built for the military but you raise an interesting point. Maybe someone could build a suit to make it slightly more difficult to run without creating additional ligament strain.

then why not run faster or further? regarding the ligament strain - this contraption adds 5kg to your weight, so i'd say there's some (tiny) additional ligament strain. i.e. the suit would just be a runners back pack weighting 5kg. fill it with water and food and you get a lightening load over time/distance too.

If you had a suit that could help increase intensity, you'd have way more possibilities. For example, let's say you wanted to train for a 5k. Generally, you mix interval days with just running 5k's. Those 5k days, you're going to be running as fast as you can at that distance already. If you had something to make it harder but still the same distance, you essentially feel lighter on race. It's a completely different feeling than just trying to run faster. People use weight vests or ankle weights for these things but they cause long term damage.

Generally, the best thing to do now to accomplish the same feeling is running on sand or inclines.

Wear a weight-vest. (Although that's probably going to increase "ligament-strain" somewhat, but I don't think it's possible to make something physically harder and not increase ligament-strain.)

That's the problem with weight vests. Even obesity, in general, is a good example of how increased weight causes joint pains.

The incorrect implicit assumption being that everyone who walks/runs outside or is on a trail/hike is doing it for fitness.

I get your point about walking but running? Every personal reason to be running outdoors ultimately ties back to the exertion involved. For example, running to "clear one's mind" is predicated on the effect physical exertion, cardio exercise in particular, has in calming/resetting/clarifying one's state of mind. I guess I could have clarified my original point better as I meant it more in terms of someone choosing to derive personal benefits from physical exertion.

I can see it making a difference to people starting an exercise regimen who would otherwise be discouraged by how far they were able to go (e.g. not being able to manage the full evening walk with their family). It may also be useful in physical therapy to help people who are not quite to the point of being able to do the exercises on their own.

Ebikes are popular and this could be for the same reasons, i.e. unfit but still enjoy getting outside and having fun.

It simply allows you to go further and/or faster for the same effort.

That might be reason enough, but another very interesting use case is when people of unequal ability wish to exercise or travel together.

We'll probably have similar competitions with body augmentations at some point

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