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Comment by rhn | Hacker News Reader

You didn't reply to the main point of my post. Have you ever been to a bar that played music you don't own? Did the bar steal from the artist by letting you and others hear something you don't own? Should the DJ call the artist first to get permission?

Please explain why it is not incumbent upon the artist to request that someone stop playing a copy of their music in public. Or why - if no digital/physical copies are being distributed - the label should have the right to make such a request.

Also, Grooveshark is in fact operating "legitimately" according to EMI, all of their other partners and legal precedent. Is Universal's approval the arbiter of legitimacy?

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You do understand that bars and venues pay site licenses to PROs like ASCAP and BMI, don't you? And DJs don't need permission thanks to compulsory licenses, but they are required to report all plays if they're on-air or spin records in a licensed venue.

As far as I know, the fees to ASCAP and BMI only cover performance rights, and have nothing to do with the record labels.

It's the fact that streaming digital audio consists of making multiple copies of the same bits that allows them to call it (recording) copyright infringement.

Correct. I was addressing the commenter saying that uploading them legally and streaming to many is no different than a bar. My whole point was that a bar licenses the music.

Purchasing music under a personal license doesn't allow one to broadcast or perform the work, so the justification is off.

And it's actually considered the same thing for web streaming — it doesn't have all that much to do with copies. By law webcasting falls under a performance so webcasters are on the hook for both publishing and performance royalties. (Radio gets a waiver on performance royalties and only pays publishing. So the composers get paid, but not necessarily the performers.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_radio#US_royalty_contr...

> Have you ever been to a bar that played music you don't own? Did the bar steal from the artist by letting you and others hear something you don't own? Should the DJ call the artist first to get permission?

Actually, yes. Bar do get sued when they haven't licensed the music properly, and I recall hearing of instances of them being sued successfully merely for having music played over the radio to a large audience, because it wasn't licensed correctly. Of course, it's only the large labels who actually have the resources to do this; bands would probably generally be okay with it (exposure, increasing the chance of people buying their records or going to their shows).

This is true, but I was referring primarily to the principle of whether someone has "stolen" by playing legally owned copyrighted media in public. Copyright laws have also forbidden public screenings for videos as well, and I think those laws are equally ridiculous. Come to think of it, I've also heard that Grooveshark has a live music program for DJs and venues.

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