How ‘Am I the Asshole?’ became the internet’s most profound query
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I hardly believe so. Reddit is an echo chamber by itself and people's judgment there is way far from perfect. In this subreddit you can see a similar effect than the "fake news" one: present an emotional scenario in which you look like the victim, no matter what you do, and the majority will get on your side. That's why you need to hear all the parties involved in a conflict resolution, otherwise you can be easily manipulated.
I think you're overstating it with regards to the specific subreddit, but I take your point in the general case. Most (if not all) recent internet outrage mobs are driven by only taking one side of the equation and sometimes taking the word of the singular individual as gospel, even though the vast majority of cases are more nuanced.
That is in some ways the point of the subreddit. Many people are acting rationally, if not reasonably, from the facts and mental state available to them. And whoever was making them feel like a jerk and driving them to the site to get a second opinion either couldn't or didn't accept that second set of facts and mental state.
But sometimes even if you tell the story from your own perspective, you're still an asshole. Witness the large number of YTA resolutions: those were people who told their own side of the story and still had the angry mob come after them. The subreddit can't resolve all disputes, but it can identify those cases.
I think you are mistaking commonality for rationality. That by no means sounds rational.
It is this sort acceptance and worship of echo chamber nonsense that I deleted my Reddit account. If I enjoyed being called names or slapped in the face by ignorant fools I would go work in a child day care or with developers too scared to death to read code in their primary language.
But the sub spiraled into emotional stories about why people were so bad off and looking for comfort. Not that that is a bad thing, but a very different content than people looking for finance advice. Since the stories were one sided, it became hard to get useful insight out of it other than just be thankful to be fortunate.
I get the sense that some people are sympathy trolling for fake internet points, but it’s not really possible to tell one way or the other.
So I just don’t read the sub any longer.
I think the best way to enjoy Reddit is to first unsubscribe to all the default ones (I did this with the exception of /r/Art), and then pick really niche subreddits that you want to be a part of, not the general big ones that usually has the shortcomings that you've mentioned.
The definition of an asshole isn't universal, if it was, nobody would need to ask the question. But biasing your answers from a largely 16 to 30 male population is going to guarantee a certain type of response in many cases.
If they can consent and did, it's nobody else's business.
It has issues in the teen years, but from about age 22 onward, it seems to match well with [US] societal mores.
The most common rule of thumb you hear is age/2 + 7. So for a 20 year old it indeed 3 "school grades" (more commonly known as years) but for a 30 year old it's 22
"My boyfriend is wonderful but his feet smell" "oh my God dump that stinky-ass clown".
Basically, instead of "communicate with your partner", everyone defaults to "get a new one".
Who are these "adults" that constantly need validation and advice from strangers on the internet? How can they seriously expect to get any useful answers? Grow the fuck up, shut down your computer and talk to your fucking partner.
Similarly, if a bunch of people in real life are calling you an asshole for something you did, you were most likely an asshole. Posting some edited version of what happened to have a bunch of internet strangers soothe your feelings isn't going to change that.
AITA for getting a friend kicked out of school?
WIBTA for telling my boyfriend he probably can’t achieve his dream?
AITA for peeing in places that are not the toilet?
WIBTA if I record the audio of my neighbours having sex and play it back to them?
Really... do you people need any more proof. Those that think ANY of these stories are real, are the same people who think Ancient Aliens is a documentary.
Reddit at face value is a fun place to find things, but like any place, you have people that game the system for nefarious reasons.
The boyfriend one also seems a common case of someone who wants their boyfriend to be realistic
Only one side of the story is presented, without opposition, without fact-finding or evidence. A court that worked like that would be obviously broken. The consequences here are only validation, but the decisions are equally broken: virtually always, the poster is declared "not the asshole".
And even if the story is presented even-handedly and thoroughly, Reddit's algorithm guts responses. It filters out thoughtful comments, nuanced stances, and minorities like experts and older people, it promotes split-second judgements, and over time it drives away people who resist those biases. Besides normalizing feedback, presenting only a single opinion instead of revealing that different types have different takes, the mentality it normalizes on is pretty immature. For example, tit-for-tat behavior is reliably supported (I've seen them OK destroying a man's life because he repeatedly spoke to the poster disrespectfully), and marriage is treasured only about as much as a second date ("other fish in the sea" comes out the moment somebody raises their voice).
People like to fixate on the toxic, and that's often because, drams.
Every so often, a bunch of them get together and start some non-toxic. And that's great. More please.
I know that it inadvertently helped me learn a lot about what factors can make people feel the way they do and behave the way they do. As I follow juicy comment threads and such, I also see this happening for others. That is indeed cool as fuck.
You don't need to spend very long on that subreddit to see that it's just as susceptible to the typical narrow-minded, black and white Reddit justice as every other subreddit. When it's not crystal clear whether the OP is asshole, there is little room for any kind of nuance and people pile on. It's very similar to relationship_advice. Full of people who should be well aware that they don't have the whole story and that life can be complicated, but don't really care, since it's not their life, so it's easy to tell people they're an asshole or that they should break up with their partner of 5+ years or some such.
Pretty much the same as /r/relationshipadvice. I would advice everyone not to listen to __strangers__ opinions on the __internet__ on behavioral subjects based on a short description.
Is this about someone learning the harshness of internet judgement for the first time? If you've been on the 'tubes for any amount of time, you understand that forum mobs are fickle and you probably don't want to invite attention to your psyche (even through an anonymous throwaway) without presenting all the facts and angles.
And then you get to the demographic nature of the particular forum (as sibling comments point out, those with little life experience.)
The whole experience gives me a lot more sympathy for those who are judged a jury of their "peers"
All subs with more than 100 subscribers are either (1) karma farms (2) egoposting no different than r/gonewild without the (explicit) nudity or (3) sports.
Anybody?
The only hint was "institutional misogyny", but that is not conclusive. If they overcame that bias, it ought to mean something. If not, I will have to look elsewhere for enlightenment.
As a senior developer this is perhaps most evident when trying to mentor a developer who cannot read code (or refuses to do so) and any suggestion along the lines of RTFC (read the fucking code) must immediately equal asshole. This is the bane of my career. This is what causes me to look for new employment and cry into my pillow at night.
>>cry into my pillow at night
People management is a job as much as writing code; arguable harder since there is usually no right answer.
Scenario: you tell the junior "we have this code that isn't documented. it's for a process that does X, but we need to understand how it goes about doing X. I need you to read and document the code." If they're refusing to do the task assigned, you've got a terrible employee, but you still don't have to be an asshole about it.
Are you real? Is this a real person?
Specific to the topic of this subthread: read the code with them. "I was looking over your commit, and I thought it might be helpful to show you how I approach solving the same problem." And then literally function by function, line by line, I explain why I made the choice I made. And when it makes sense to do so, I compare it to the code being submitted, and I ask, "Do you understand why I would do B instead of A?" until they indicate that they get it. I leave my code in a separate branch, and ask them to push updated code to their branch. I suggest that even though they have a working solution in another branch, that they type in their updates rather than copy and paste.
At a high level, I try to find them something better suited for them to do. Sometimes reading the manual (or the style guide, or the code) isn't the best way for that person to learn. So, maybe I help them find a different way of learning. Or maybe that means pointing them to a different role in the company, or having a chat and seeing if there's anyone I know in my network who could better employ them, that's what I do. If this person got hired, they were the best out of a bunch of applicants, so there's usually something worth pursuing. I've helped ecommerce merchandisers pivot to QA roles, front-end devs refocus on backend, backend developers go heavy into infrastructure and deployment...
Several times in my career I've been the last stop for the developer that all the other devs have rejected as useless.
Sometimes, hey, they're right. Someone got in way over their head and is being dishonest, and you have to level with them and send them on their way. If they're being an asshole, let -them- be the asshole. Even the worst coworker I've had deal with has never had me thinking, "they should be destroyed" - I even felt a little bad as [this particular person] finally got let go, because they had started to turn things around. But I also knew they'd be better suited elsewhere, and we were better off without this person.
Several other times, I've seen people on the edge of being fired eventually grow into senior leads, after having some conversations about where they're struggling and what steps they could take to improve. Even people who refused to just read the code came to see past their insecurities and stubbornness, and became better at working with other people. Whether this has been someone in their 20s, or someone in their 50s, my approach has been to help work towards a better solution and solve for a problem... not to tell them to "RTFC or be destroyed".
I knew a guy like that. A junior dev in the desk next to mine was struggling with some code, and this dude (notorious for being an asshole if you let him) was yelling at him about how he needs to just figure it out. I was fed up with these interactions, so I stood up and asked the asshole how he'd fix the problem. He stammered a bit, looked at the code a bit, and said he didn't know how to fix the problem either. Well, why are you being a dick about it if you can't help? He walked away, I helped the dev with the issue.
I'm going to bring out that e-word here, because it's not just a buzzword to throw around, it's something that is incredibly helpful once you incorporate it into your problem solving: empathy. Find out why that person is struggling and help them.
Simply throwing up your hands because life is hard isn't an acceptable answer. Yes, I have encountered this frequently. This is typically manifested by hoping a tool writes your code for you only to be followed by soul crushing defeat (and endless excuses) when the reality sets in that the tool in question is a leaky abstraction.
Simply asking a developer to try does not an asshole make, but actually it does (matter of perspective). I call this entitlement. It isn't a lack of empathy. Empathy is manifest through good mentorship on the part of the mentor. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink when they as they think they should have to.
This confusion is why I am walking myself out of the corporate world. I just received a recruitment letter last week from one of the FAANG companies and I will not respond. I am tired of the fun and games. You can have it. I am on my way to somewhere more selective that takes mentorship a bit more seriously.
So, just in this thread, I've noticed a few interesting statements.
> I am in management, possibly longer than you have held your career.
vs.
> I do not assert superiority and I also don't make baseless assumptions about strangers on the internet.
Do you understand how those two statements are in direct odds with each other?
>Oh how I tire of profoundly sensitive people. vs.
> This is what causes me to look for new employment and cry into my pillow at night.
Obviously this is an attempt at humor, and it's funny, but maybe not in the way you were thinking.
>Simply throwing up your hands because life is hard isn't an acceptable answer.
> You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink when they as they think they should have to.
> I do think of people who have trouble with confrontations as weak.
[...]
>This confusion is why I am walking myself out of the corporate world. [...] I am tired of the fun and games.
So... you're confused, having trouble with confrontations, and are throwing your hands up... because you're weak and life is hard? ;)
Sincerely though, best of luck in your future endeavors! A few paragraphs in an HN thread is in no way an complete insight into the years you've had working wherever it is you work. Nonetheless, in this window you opened up, I hope you see some patterns in the feedback you've gotten here on HN from your posts in this thread and take that into consideration when working with other people in the future.
Enjoy what's left of the weekend!
Please don't post flamebait to HN. It makes this place worse.