Comment by jdietrich | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jdietrich | Hacker News Reader

Not mentioned in the article:

The Scottish heroin epidemic started in Edinburgh, the more prosperous of Scotland's two largest cities. This was largely due to the presence of MacFarlan Smith, which was at one point the world's largest producer of pharmaceutical opiates. That initial cohort of heroin users in the 1980s predominantly used drugs that were diverted from the legitimate pharmaceutical supply rather than smuggled from abroad, which led to an unusually rapid increase in the user population and the illicit market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacFarlan_Smith

The majority of overdose deaths in Scotland involved multiple drugs; for reasons that are not entirely clear, Scottish addicts are particularly prone to concurrently use opiates, benzodiazepines and alcohol in an indiscriminate manner. This vastly increases the risk of overdose due to the cumulative and unpredictable respiratory depression induced by multiple drugs.

http://www.sdf.org.uk/934-deaths-from-a-drug-overdose-in-sco...

> The majority of overdose deaths in Scotland involved multiple drugs; for reasons that are not entirely clear, Scottish addicts are particularly prone to concurrently use opiates, benzodiazepines and alcohol in an indiscriminate manner.

I don't believe this is specific to Scotland. My layperson understanding is that heroin is relatively safe in the sense that most opioid deaths fall into one of the following categories: multiple drug interaction (benzos/alcohol being a very common combination), tolerance change due to relapse and, more recently, increased variance in potency due to strong synthetics (fentynyl, carfentanil, etc.). This is the theory behind people who advocate for maintenance prescriptions.

59% of drug overdose deaths in Scotland involved a benzodiazepine, compared to less than 16% in England and Wales. Scotland has an unusually serious and rapidly increasing problem of benzodiazepine-related deaths.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...

The Macfarlan Smith link is interesting and not something I’ve ever heard before. Is there any other information on this on the web or elsewhere? A google for “Macfarlan Smith” and “Heroin” only returns your comment here as best I could find in a few minutes of searching.

As a pharmaceutical product, heroin is called diamorphine, which should turn up more information. This article from The Scotsman newspaper mentions the theft of diamorphine from the MacFarlan Smith factory.

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/drug-menace-off-the-st...

Thanks for the link!

You may also be interested in this interview with Dr Roy Robertson, who was one of the first to identify the heroin problem in Edinburgh and the subsequent outbreak of HIV/AIDS.

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/choose-lif...

The first of Irvine Welsh's "Trainspotting" books, the prequel "Skagboys", has that factory as a core component of a few of its story lines. I though Skagboys was at least as good as Trainspotting, and I'm glad I read it first.

The schemes on the outskirts are pretty grim as where parts of Leith

Redheads are known to have greater pain tolerance. Perhaps there's a relationship to that phenomenon here.

Watch out @yostrovs, HN is not a safe space for humor attempts.

Though I did find my comment amusing, I do believe there may be something to it.

It is a fact that redheads have higher pain tolerance and respond differently to anesthesia compared to the rest of the population. Considering these phenomena are related to drug abuse, I feel like the downvoting is a matter of ignorance.

That is rare information. Never heard of MacFarlan Smith before.

To add to the cocktail of drugs there is also glue sniffing. South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue. But this goes on in Glasgow. I found this shocking to see.

There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is not sold south of the border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_Tonic_Wine

15% alcohol in what is effectively an energy drink. Happy times.

I recall talking to a colleague from Edinburgh (with a PHD ) who commented she as considered a lightweight as she cut her bucky with lemonade.

Buckie is definitely sold south of the border. I've moved from Scotland to England and I see Buckie for sale in cornershops here with the same frequency I would in Scotland. Buckfast is made at an abbey in England, it doesn't originate in Scotland.

There is plenty of solvent abuse outside of Scotland including glue sniffing.

Ah, Buckfast is viewed with a bit of affection in Ireland (the Republic) as well. Though I've never seen anyone actually drink it.

I did a semester in Ireland back in the 90's and it was an occasional purchase by myself and other college students. Basically along the lines of how we'd get 40oz malt liquor in the states (or later on, those alcopops with caffeine like Sparks).

They don't taste good but they're cheap and strong so they were popular with college kids looking to hang out and get buzzed with friends. Even then we sort of did it with a wink and a grin, knowing that we were drinking some pretty "trashy" stuff.

"Buckfast gets you fucked fast!" was the common joke.

Can anyone compare / contrast Bucky with FourLoko from the US? This was also an energy drink that was forced to reformulate and pay some fines for being too crazy.

I recall people hoarding “original formula” watermelon fourloko when it started disappearing from shelves.

Edit: a decent overview of the “banned” four loko vs reformulates version: https://youtu.be/XUPXFzag258

Buckfast was, and still remains a very potent drink. It’s a very cheap way of doing rather idiotic things and reaching a level of caffeine and alcohol mix that lends itself to university parties or clubbing. However it tastes absolutely awful past the first sip or two, with a flavour resembling cough syrup.

Fourloko seems to have a similar reputations with my friends from universities across the pond, but is a fair bit less alcoholic, and served in large beer can quantities rather than 750ml wine bottles. If you down a bottle of Bucky you’re having a night you probably won’t remember.

Buckfast doesn't deserve to be lumped with glue sniffing. It is more an icon of revelry than alcoholism with it costing about twice as much as cheap wine. Its herbal stimulants give it an immediate effect similar to doing shots of a spirit but with half the alcohol load.

I never realised it was anything other than alcohol. I had a quick look, but didn't see anything about "herbal stimulants"?

Never heard of any herbal stimulants myself, and I drank a few bottles in my youth. It does have a disclaimer on in saying "the name tonic wine does not imply any medicinal properties". I think it's just the combination of alcohol and lots of caffeine which gives the desired effect

Admittedly I was thinking along the lines of gin and other drinks herbal contents. But while Buckfast Abbey is guarded about "the recipe" they say it is essentially the same as it was 120 years ago. It is said to be made from "fortified wine" (which besides alcohol and sugar, is loaded with plant based tannins, some reservatrol, and any number of extra ingredients), a couple of preservatives, vanilla extract... and it has caffeine in it.

It seems like a liability for the traditional branding if they do not make it as they claim "along the same lines and according to the same basic recipe as used in the very early days" They could be just mixing in highly refined caffeine like an "alcho-pop" manufacturer but I'm not so cynical to expect that.

It's caffeine, which can be extracted from natural herbal sources.

Bucky is absolutely available everywhere in England. I sought it out last summer on vacation in the Lakes, largely as a joke to share (via social media) with other friends of mine who are also fans of Ted Leo. (Leo has a song that references Buckfast, and has had to explain what it is at concerts for years.)

It is terrible.

> South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue

This is quite an unsubstantiated claim. Never? Of course you will, and do.

> There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is not sold south of the border.

This is patently false. It's made in Devon at Buckfast Abbey, so of course it's sold south of the border. And you see it south of the border all over the place. I know several places off the top of my head in Leeds and London where you can buy it. You can buy it on Amazon as well.

https://www.buckfast.com/stockists

You are nit-picking here.

I have spent a lot of time in the scummier parts of London and yet to step over some kid sniffing glue. In Glasgow it is an all too common sight. You can check the health statistics and I am sure there are a few parts of North England and Northern Ireland that are similarly blighted but glue is not a problem south of the Watford Gap in the way that it is in Glasgow.

Sure Bucky is now stocked by Booker and therefore available in corner shops in England, however this is a recent development. Five years ago it was near impossible to buy the stuff in England. As for today, good luck buying bucky in a normal supermarket - Tesco, Waitrose, Asda, Sainsbury's, Aldi, Lidl etc. or even in a pub. It isn't marketed in England in the same way it is marketed in Scotland.

Maybe the glue point was nit-picking as it's fairly unreasonable to interpret your text as "literally exactly 0 people sniff glue in England", but "is not sold south of the border" -> "um, yes it is here and here" does not seem at all like nit-picking to me as it's far more reasonable to read that text as absolute.

> I have spent a lot of time in the scummier parts of London and yet to step over some kid sniffing glue. In Glasgow it is an all too common sight.

I studied in and now live and work in Glasgow. I've been here for a total of 7 years. I walk to and from work across the city. I'm out late in either the City Center, the west end, Finnieston or the Merchant City at least once a week. I'm maybe out twice a month for past 1am nights and I'm up early for the gym a few mornings a week too. I have not once seen anyone sniffing glue or doing any kind of drugs openly on the city streets.

Cities are weird beasts. I live in Midtown Atlanta and walk to and from work, I am also out and about sometimes in the evenings. It's one city at these times. But if I'm out late at night, every now and again I'm froggy for a late night walk, I see packs of people just hanging out. I have no idea where they came from, where they live, Midtown is an expensive place, or why they feel like Midtown is a great place to bring your private outdoors party, but I don't encounter it unless I'm off my routine.

It's possible that open drug use might be happening right under your nose and you're never around to see it.

> It isn't marketed in England in the same way it is marketed in Scotland

Scot here - Buckfast is certainly notorious in the central belt, but I've never seen it actually advertised anywhere, in any medium?

Buckfast isn't really something that gets marketed in Scotland, as far as I've ever seen. It's more just garnered that reputation as a drink that will get you buzzed on a night out really fast. I drank it when I was younger, but these days the hangovers just aren't worth it.

Buckfast is also sold in Ireland and it always had a reputation for getting people messed up when drinking.

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_Tonic_Wine

1 bottle 750ml @ 15% alcohol + caffeine equivalent to 8 cans of coke, that will do it alright.

edit good god just found this, why? https://www.dailyedge.ie/buckfast-easter-egg-3300036-Mar2017...

regarding glue sniffing in England:

There were plenty of them where I grew up in NE England, so that it pre '86. You'd often find them in the local park when out walking the dog - or the dog would find them.

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