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Comment by luckylion | Hacker News Reader

Berlin's public transport is notoriously bad (imho), a lot of it is owed to being divided for decades and the rest is just Berlin not taking care of it. Personal transportation is a much better alternative for many routes time wise, and hard to ever beat comfort wise.

There's a lot of commercial parking available, and it's not that expensive either.

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Notoriously bad? Compared to what cities? It's certainly one of the better ones in Germany, if not even the best. You can absolutely get around in Berlin without a car.

The other larger cities and conglomerations in Germany don't compare favourably, with Rhine-Ruhr (which stretches roughly from Cologne to Dortmund) being particularly bad.

In Europe Berlin's public transport system probably is only rivalled by those in London, Paris and Amsterdam.

It's far from the German best, but it's still more good enough, especially considering how it is plagued by cheer scale and all the construction sites all the time.

You can get around in Berlin without a car, you're absolutely right -I've done it myself- it's just not convenient compared to using a car (or bike, if you're traveling light and reasonable distances), which is why, I believe, many people are using their cars despite the fact that public transportation exists. I very much prefer Hamburg's public transportation for speed, reliability and upkeep (though they often sucked at planning for rush hour and large events when I was living there), and the (albeit limited) experiences I have in Frankfurt, Dusseldorf and Bonn were better, too.

It wasn't my intention to insult anyone's home town, Berlin's history explains a lot of the situation, which I mentioned in my comment, so please don't take it personally.

Maybe you have a much higher level of stress tolerance than me, but driving though Berlin is anything but convenient.

And unless you are driving at night or the early morning it's also not faster than the S or U-Bahn with the added hassle of having to find a parking spot.

Possibly regarding the stress tolerance, the fondness (or lack thereof) of Berlin's specific culture likely plays a role as well.

And I'm not saying that the car is superior for any and all connections, but that it's superior for many that aren't easy to do by PT. It's similar with trains: Berlin to Hamburg is easy by train, but if your destination requires a switch or two, the car is often the quicker option on medium distances.

My partner drives to work by car from Fhain to Reinickendorf because the PT connection is not great and it takes more time. So that totally makes sense. For me commuting to work into Mitte is 20 minutes with PT with one change at Alexanderplatz, which is super easy. So it depends i guess.

Berlin's public transport was perfectly fine for me just like a large city such as Amsterdam is (which is where I live). If it adds anything of substance: when we were in Berlin we were on babymoon, my partner was 6 months pregnant at that time. Also, I've been in Berlin on several occasions. As a Dutch person, I find German people rather friendly, with a near-excellent detail to service and hospitality.

Actually, the worst part of the whole travel was the way back with the ICE. The part in Germany went great (apart from having terrible LTE connectivity but I also saw loads of forests and such so that makes sense). It just stopped at the middle of nowhere, in Bad Bentheim, in December, with snow and all. The train wouldn't go further in The Netherlands. The DB allowed us to remain in the train with the heating on while NS (Dutch Railways) got another train instead which took an hour to arrive, was less luxurious as ICE, and was full. At the same time I caught a flu on the last day which was setting on during the train travel. Together with all our baggage, and a 6 months pregnant partner who I don't want to carry much. Fun times...

OK, one more point to make: German people are attached to cash money instead of cards. So sometimes I could not even pay with card. I like it, in a way, because it adds to privacy, and there's a nostalgia feeling, too. But if I'm used to card, it also feels like a step backwards.

I agree.

I've been to berlin about five times and I've never used a car or taxi. I'm not afraid of walking so I walk to the hotel from a public transport stop, most I've experienced is around 2 km.

While there I find riding a bike a superior means of transportation. You can even rent electric ones and Berlin is _flat_. Also the public transportation works well. I've not been to Rhine-Ruhr area but down south around München it's not so good but still passable, I didn't need a car there either. It was a bit slow though when going far like München - Erding.

Amsterdam is pretty good although I wish the trams would run a little longer in the night. There are always buses and rickshaws though.

London I wouldn't even dare to drive, they do it on the wrong side! But I've never needed a car there either.

I know a lot of expats living in Berlin who are all impressed by the public transport. Granted, they are mostly not from Europe and I personally also prefer to take the bike whenever I can, but it's far from "notoriously bad".

Op is right, though. The PT in Berlin is certainly quite large and offers quite some options on paper. But it is notoriously crowded, unreliable, and sometimes just plain slow.

Edit: forgot to mention dirty and often unsafe.

Crowded: no, you can almost always find a place to seat. Paris PT is crowded, not Berlin's.

Unreliable: true for the S-Bahn, outages are frequent.

All things considered, it's still better than all other big cities I have visited.

What do you mean by unsafe?

UBahn is (surprisingly frequently) used by people that appear to have some kind of mental disorder, yelling at and attacking other passengers, to a lesser extend by what I would describe as wannabe gangs, people under the influence and plain drug criminals. Nevermind that the subway has a lot of strict rules in that regard but Berlin being Berlin they are hardly ever enforced.

Just an anecdote: I once witnessed a really large muscular and completely drunk guy attacking an actor that was dressed up as Friedrich II., including what looked like a rapier or small sabre. The situation was definitely unsafe for the actor and (if he would not have managed to protect his rapier, because that was what that drunk guy was after) potentially dangerous for anyone else.

Another day I had to interrupt some aggressive youngsters trying to rob other passengers in the middle of the day. When they left it turned out they were armed with knives. Not a fun thing to learn. I notified the subway driver once I got out (the gang was moving from wagon to wagon), but he essentially did nothing to stop them.

I have not witnessed such stuff in other cities' public transport. And certainly not in that frequency.

Slow, yes. That's a main gripe i also have mostly because the routes are bad. But crowded? Have you been in the Paris or London metros at peak times? If anything it's worse if we are talking only about crowdedness. Even in places like Tokyo, known for their perfect schedules and reliable PT, the amount of people stuffed into a single train is on another level.

In what way do you feel it's unsafe? There are a few notorious party lines (U8, M10) which can get pretty crowded with tourists on weekends but this is just annoying at worst. There is also a large amount of people begging on PT in Berlin but I never felt threatened by them. I don't take PT much here regardles, usually just ride my bike.

Don't know how unsafe it is, but it is a bit nasty to see the stuff that goes on in U-bahn stations such as Moritzplatz, Kottbusser Tor, Schönleinstraße, Hermannplatz, Leopoldplatz, Boddingstraße et.al.

Never felt unsafe, but the heroin usage and dealing is very open and in your face during the commuting hours.

Kind of right, but it's not THAT bad. I commute from Neukölln to Prenzlauer Berg every day and taking the S41/S42 trains is by far the fastest way of getting to work. Car is slower and it's quite annoying to go through the city, bike is a bit slower but I prefer to get my exercise by running.

Another story are the renovations and building projects that just cut whatever part of the public transportation down for days/weeks. There are alternative routes one can always take, but I prefer to stay out of the hot U-bahn during the summer days. There can be some nice surprises, like that one Monday morning when this guy decides to start smoking heroin in a full and sweaty U8.

Edit: Forgot to add that the trams are awesome. Air-conditioned, fast and comfortable in the eastern part of the city.

Nonsense, compared to other cities such as London, almost any city in the US, etc. public transport here is awesome. There is a dense network of buses, trams, underground, and commuter rail. Service is frequent and reliable.

Anyway, this is a (tiny) start but it won't do much else than move the congestion a few blocks. I'd be in favor of much more aggressive measures. Simply making parking a lot more expensive will help discourage people using their cars inside the city. Some people actually commute by car inside the downtown area. This is not a thing in most normal cities these days.

Sorry, I wasn't comparing Berlin to US cities, but to other German cities (similar culture, similar geography, similar climate, similar funding). Obviously, a car culture will generally have a less pronounced public transportation system.

Are there other German cities with a similar culture to Berlin? I’d like to visit them!

Leipzig is smaller but has a similar vibe. Also good public transport there.

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