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Comment by sandworm101 | Hacker News Reader

The lawyer in me suggests removing that comment asap. Lying on immigration forms, no matter the reason or timeline, can be a big deal. The US recently setup a "denaturalization task force" to look for technical reasons to deny/deport and generally be evil towards immigrants who have done things like lie on immigration forms. But maybe you really hate your in-laws.

"A United States Citizenship and Immigration Services team in Los Angeles has been reviewing more than 2,500 naturalization files for possible denaturalization, focusing on identity fraud and willful misrepresentation. More than 100 cases have been referred to the Department of Justice for possible action." (2018)

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-denaturali...

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We've detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20626090.

I see your point, but are there records to verify his claim? If not, what's the government going to do?

The worry would be them saying "we have evidence of your x-in-law stating you lied. Prove otherwise."

Oh, I dunno, lock people up and/or deport them anyway?

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180...

Whatever they want to do. There is zero penalty or downside for them to falsely imprison someone for months or years.

Yeah, but nobody with at least half a brain is gonna try and prosecute old Vietnamese couple who lied on a form so they could escape communism and spend more years working. That would go against basically every "traditional American value" and even if they did (federal law enforcement does not have a reputation for being reasonable) it would just be a political time bomb until the story got out.

Edit: I guess I was wrong and they are targeting these kinds of people.

I disagree, ICE are going absolutely crazy locking up people they even suspect of immigration discrepancies.

Your level of trust in the US government is unfortunately vastly unwarranted. Hundreds if not thousands of children will never see their parents again as a result of the US government policies; this has been widely publicized. Do you think an elderly Vietnamese couple will move the needle?

It's worth noting that a lot of children held separately were brought into the country not by relations. Beyond this a huge number of those children have been reunited. Note that this is separate from those children separated from parents that are being charged and prosecuted, much like any other crime. Also, most of these policies were started under Obama or previously. Personally, I think that illegal border crossings should be prosecuted.

On the flip side, I also feel that work visas should be granted under a very few limitations centered around having a job and place to live lined up along with English proficiency and/or enrollment in an ESL program. This should be combined with requiring that a company with work visas employ no more than 25% of staff on work visas and that the average pay matches the company's average pay as a whole. Under those conditions the issue could mostly self-regulate in terms of the rate of immigration vs. a sustainable level.

> I also feel that work visas should be granted under a very few limitations

The problem is that everybody and their Uncle has a detailed plan for a fairer immigration policy, but every plan is different and nobody is willing to compromise. So everybody gets to claim that they're the reasonable one while simultaneously persisting the patently unreasonable and inhumane status quo.

I agree with you but I would have said "Your level of trust in the extreme right-wing Trump government ..."

While the Trump government has taken things to extremes for our time, the US government has a long and storied history of genocide [1], forced relocations [2], mass deportations of citizens [3], and internment [4] that doesn't get washed away just because Trump is the leader of the day.

Also worth mentioning that several of the horror stories that hit the news during the Trump administration happened under the Obama administration. Yes, Trump is significantly worse, but one administration does not achieve this level of viciousness this quickly unless the way is well and clearly paved.

[1] https://www.history.com/news/native-americans-genocide-unite...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...

> old Vietnamese couple

They are not old, they are only 55 according to the documents. /s

Sadly, one can find many stories of decent, well-liked, completely harmless people being harassed, detained, and/or deported based on the whims of immigration officials. This includes green card holders and even citizens. It’s horrifying, but that’s where we are currently as a country.

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic, but this is something that was started 8 months ago[1][2][3]

1. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/699177071/40-years-after-the-...

2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trum...

3. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/12/do...

Yes, they will. The goal is to remove immigrants. There are no consequences for doing it improperly or failing to "uphold traditional values".

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190730/florida-trucker-f...

Have you heard about this story? Do you think it's a political time bomb? What about this one? https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038...

> That would go against basically every "traditional American value"

Welcome to the Trump administration.

Yes, there is this post on HN.

That's not snark--a relative willingly divulged that information in a public forum. That's sufficient evidence.

They're going for the low hanging fruit. They aren't trolling random internet forums, getting subpoenas for ip addresses, then tracking down relatives.

Except that they actually do. They're not as incompetent or as lazy as you think. Even if they didn't watch search engine results, all it takes is one deranged individual seeing this and making an anonymous tip.

I think this stems from a case in which an NYC immigration lawyer processed thousands of fraudulent applications. I think now they are looking for similar unusual activity elsewhere.

> The lawyer in me suggests removing that comment asap. But maybe you really hate your in-laws.

Yikes. Let's not overreact to a nondescript HN comment.

Talk to an immigration lawyer, a non-government immigration lawyer. The best strategy is to avoid triggering any sort of investigation. Even if there is zero evidence, even if you have done absolutely nothing, the investigation can make your life hell for years. As a private person I support freedom of speech. As an attorney, in this political climate, I advise not saying anything that might draw the attention of federal officials. They do trawl online forums for comments. They do investigate facebook posts. They do target individuals vindictively. I advise never saying anything about anyone's immigration history.

I advise not making overly aggressive insinuations if you want your comments to be taken seriously: "But maybe you really hate your in-laws." Was that really a necessary addition? Even if it is possibly damaging I don't see any reason to assume malicious intent rather than ignorance.

In-laws are one of the most common tropes in comedy. You're missing a harmless and obvious joke.

You really think INS are monitoring and investigating comments from throwaways in an anonymous forum like HN? Easy with the tin foil.

Your faith in your anonymity online anywhere is much more of a tinfoil belief.

I didn't refer to absolute anonymity, but to an anonymous design (anybody can register, without an email even). The point is that it's far easier for INS to troll a place with real identities like Facebook. I don't think the NSA's resources are about to be spent on determining the commenter's Vietnamese parents' identities. If parent were threatening a mass shooting, that would be another story. But as they say, technically correct is the best kind of correct, so kudos.

I'm not being flippant. It's not a question of what was required for you to register. Your requests to this web server are very likely logged, therefore subject to search by law enforcement. Depending on the details logged, your browser fingerprint will very likely uniquely identify your device and could be matched.

You should also understand that authorities do not seek that kind of evidence for violent crimes in the moment. Intelligence services capture massive amounts of traffic for future investigation. What you post today could be evidence for an offense you can't imagine ten years from now.

> evidence for an offense you can't imagine ten years from now.

If your argument rests on future, unknown abuses... I'm afraid that's tin foil territory.

Your comments sound like regurgitated talking points from when Snowden was in the news, so I'm not sure who you think you're educating about fingerprinting, etc. It's been common knowledge for years.

It's clearly more him trying to make a point about immigration.

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