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Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

Apple replaced my keyboard for free (two week turnaround)... but the Apple tech also suggested I purchase the $13 Ghostcover keyboard cover [1] for the new one to prevent future problems. I did and... it's actually amazing and doesn't get in the way of typing at all. Seriously can't even notice it's there in terms of touch, and its texture feels the same as the original keys.

Should Apple make a keyboard less prone to problems from debris? Yes, of course. But in the meantime, is a $13 keyboard cover a good idea to fix a $1,300+ machine? Also Yes. A minor inconvenience to have to buy, but at least it fixes it for good... and I've never seen it mentioned on HN before so thought I'd share in case it helps others.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N20RZXB

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Sounds like Apple should be providing this $13 magical fix to anyone that brings in a defective product for free.

Completely agree. MacBooks should just come with one in the first place. What's even crazier is they don't even sell it in their stores... the tech gave me the name of it so I could buy it online.

I doubt it’s company policy to go around recommending a dustcover. Probably just something that the helpful support person tells people.

Can you imagine a process where Apple takes that recommendation and walks it up the chain internally to get it offered alongside the repair for free? Not a good look.

Apple handed out free cases for the iPhone 4 for a while to mitigate issues where the cell signal would drop when you held the phone a certain way. This type of action wouldn’t be unprecedented.

They made and sold the cases though before it became a workaround.

They let you get third party cases valued at up to ~$30 for free. This wasn’t just for Apple branded cases. In fact, I believe this was before Apple sold first party iPhone cases.

In fact Apples official support documentation tells you to not use keyboard covers https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671

Leaving any material on the top case (keyboard and palm rest area) could result in damage to the display when you close it.

That is an interesting twist. I hadn't thought of that, and display is surely an expensive repair.. which reminds me, I need to repair the bezel on my macbook pro..

Doesn't the low clearance between the keyboard and the display cause an issue? I get key rub marks on my display, and I don't even have a cover.

(I do transit with my macbook in my backpack, which is a likely cause of the rub marks)

It doesn't at all with my Late 2016 MBP, zero issue.

(My previous MacBook Air did get the key marks on the display, and that was without any cover. So I'm guessing it depends on the model of MacBook.)

It's not sufficient. I have <1 month old MBP with the latest butterfly design and a cover, and Caps Lock is not firing every ~2-3 strokes.

Might it be due to the default delay on Caps Lock?

Yeah, another brilliant Apple "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. WTF?

They did the same thing to the Eject key: They put a hardware DELAY on it, so you couldn't remap it to be a real Delete key.

How can Apple work so hard to screw up a KEYBOARD? Incredible.

I am fairly certain that any software that lets you remap that key should also let you kill the delay.

When I last looked into this, it seemed as if the delay was programmed into the firmware on the keyboard.

I never understood when pc/win users complain about missing keys on the mac keyboards. What's so hard about using modifiers, is it just habit? Pg up/down, delete, home, end. Those are all possible and imho easier, yes cmd+arrow is imho easier than pecking for that home key which way out of reach. I don't see anyone complaining about a missing "copy", "paste" or "undo" key on any keyboard.

Mainly Windows user here, one of those people you mention.

We don't moan about Copy, Paste or Undo because those have not traditionally been on any keyboards, as they are too recent.

The others are Iannoying because we're very used to having dedicated keys for them, and they are very common actions, and it's faster to use a single key. Yes, I can press FN+Backspace to do a Delete... but why when it's such a common operation?!

Home, Page Down etc are the worst though, as I can still never remember the correct key combos, and peck around trying different variations before cursing and using the mouse instead.

What I don't understand is how Mac users put up with this!

> those have not traditionally been on any keyboards

Appeal to tradition, not a real argument.

> it's faster to use a single key.

This isn't self-evident as you make it out to be. Depends on keyboard layout and the typist. For me it's usually faster to press a combo than reach for that far-flung dedicated key.

> Yes, I can press FN+Backspace to do a Delete... but why when it's such a common operation?!

That's arguable, and even so, I don't see why it's worse. It even makes sense that a modifier alters the direction of deletion. Notice that on the mac keyboard the backspace says delete on it, not backspace.

> What I don't understand is how Mac users put up with this!

Maybe Mac users honor their traditions?

> Appeal to tradition, not a real argument

What people are used to seems a valid enough argument to me...

> This isn't self-evident as you make it out to be. Depends on keyboard layout and the typist. For me it's usually faster to press a combo than reach for that far-flung dedicated key.

I don't have references of course, but it really does seem self-evident to me. Take FN-Backspace vs Delete as an example - I need to use keys on opposite sides of the keyboard, vs a single Delete key that's next to the Backspace key, so I don't buy your "far flung" keys argument. Also, I don't know what kind of massive keyboard you're using if keys are "far flung" ;)

> Maybe Mac users honor their traditions?

I was being sarcastic with that final quip, but that seems fair enough to me.

As some other people mentioned, Caps Lock on Mac keyboards are special, Apple added a delay or something for people hitting it accidentally. If you google around there's some fix for it, I think.

If you're not having trouble with any other key, your keyboard probably works fine. Keep that dust cover on!

I bought the MBP the day it came out, and had to have the keyboard replaced (pre keyboard-service-program, Apple "generously" comped the repair).

Afterwards I used a Ghostcover and recommend it strongly. It slightly degrades the feel of an already bad-feeling keyboard, but not hard to get used to, and it completely solves the reliability issue. A band-aid for an absurd problem.

I find it highly amusing that Apple puts so much engineering into making their products light and thin and pretty, that people have to cover the products in rubber cases.

Basically the only time you experience the actual design is during unboxing.

One drawback here is, that condensed water could accumulate under the cover, which can lead to even more problems

(source: repair guy from my local apple repair shop)

>But in the meantime, is a $13 keyboard cover a good idea to fix a $1,300+ machine?

No.

That cost, what, $5 to make and ship? Or, at Apple's scale, $.50? I think it's inexcusable.

Yes it's inexcusable. But If you've already dropped $1300+, do yourself a favor and drop $13 to spare yourself a couple of weeks of inevitable downtime.

or buy a competing laptop, which is what i did and i believe to be the sane choice

The cost is all in the distribution/packaging - the covers themselves are surely injection molded, pennies if that per cover, and lots of covers fast. (Injection molding tooling costs like 50k+ to setup, obviously not a concern here).

If the cover costs .05$ (which I bet is 5x it's cost) - the rest is all of the packaging/printing/logistics/shipping/etc.

My question is if a solution so cheap is available, why can't they just fix the root issue of the keyboard?

I have seen many on Reddit and Macrumors recommend a key cover. It doesn't really do anything other than potentially damage your screen.

It ruins the feel of the keyboard. Sure, it blocks crumbs and such from getting in the keys but that's not really the issue with the keyboard.

The mechanism is just crap and fails. This doesn't do anything to prevent that.

Huh? My comment explains it doesn't ruin the feel of the keyboard, which was my pleasant surprise. Typing is basically exactly the same experience. And at least on my Late 2016 MBP there is zero impression on the screen. (I can't speak for other models.)

And the issue is debris with the new keyboards. I haven't heard anyone complaining about a failing mechanism. Everyone's complaining about dust and debris getting into the mechanism which prevents or multiplies keypresses.

I had the same cover, and had to return it. It definitely changes the keyboard feel.

The problem with these is that my machine runs noticeably hotter while the cover is on (I presume part of the cooling happens through the keyboard). It's not a very pleasant typing experience when I have to touch this hot cover.

Considering my MBP already gets quite hot this is a very valid concern.

Try the silicon covers, I find them to be even better than the plastic ones. The plastic tends to move around randomly on me and the silicon feels nicer.

$13 is expensive too, someone is making some cash... I'm in Vietnam, they are about $4-5 here (obviously, proximity to China certainly helps).

$13 is about 1% of the cost of the laptop.

Does the laptop only cost about $400-500 in Vietnam? If so, I know what I'm doing next time I holiday in Vietnam!

Percentage wise, you're totally right, but reality is that once you know the true cost of these sorts of things, you start wondering why you paid so much in the past.

Sadly, laptops are expensive due to the way customs works in Vietnam. =(

I went by today, g, h, spacebar issues and the left command key let loose on the top part. They cleaned my mbp 2016 keyboard and replaced the keys I had issues with. Works perfectly again and in case issues return the keyboard would be replaced under same program.

Fixed while I waited.

Thank you for that recommendation. I had issues with my keyboard this week. It's a travesty that Apple is screwing up something that has been a solved problem for years.

A cover isn't going to fix the inherent shittiness of Apple's keyboard.

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