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daeroth

Some real-time payment infrastructures to compare to:

UK - Faster Payments Service (2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments_Service

EU - SEPA Instant Credit (2017) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#SEPA...

Australia - New Payments Platform (2018) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Payments_Platform

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Mexico - SPEI (2004)

http://www.anterior.banxico.org.mx/sistemas-de-pago/servicio...

EU - TIPS (2018)

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.htm...

Also, despite not technically being a governmental operation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface, from India.

Came here to say this.

UPI is quite revolutionary. Launched in 2016 [0], UPI handles 882.3 million transactions with ~USD 21 billion in transaction value [1], as of July, 2019.

UPI is designed to be a payment utility by National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI). NPCI is not a governmental organisation but is formed by a collective of 56 Indian Banks including 10 core banks [2].

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface [1] - https://www.medianama.com/2019/08/223-upi-transactions-grew-... [2] - https://www.npci.org.in/about-us-background

NPP has been hugely beneficial for p2p. I've used it and now trust it implicitly, as a mechanism.

Being stuck in cheque clearing bank settlement delay is a royal pain.

International funds clearance and KYC remain problems.

NPP is on it's way to being really handy, but it still sucks that I have to hack things to force NPP for some payments

(ie. CommBank will only use NPP for PayID payments, but banks like Up will use NPP for transfers for a BSB/Account number if the receiving banks supports it, not all banks are fully on the platform yet)

The downside is my teenagers can now shake me down for cash remotely

NPP is a joke. There's a limit of $1,000 for transfers. It doesn't always work if you don't use a PayID.

Compare that to Faster Payments which easily works with 250k with or without a PayID

That transaction limit is only a bank imposed limitation - while out of the ones I checked, Commonwealth (and I assume some other) does have a $1K daily limit for personal accounts, various other banks appear to have higher limits or just use the regular transaction limit (which you can usually choose yourself).

If you regularly need to move 250k sums electronically inside the Australian economy, using this kind of mechanism, I'd love to know what you're doing. Only because I am nosy: I cannot conceive of transactions on this level which demand NPP class behaviour.

I think the idea is that it is very common to transact in amounts >$1000. Rent, car payment, direct deposit, etc.

> If you regularly need to move 250k sums electronically inside the Australian economy.

Paying sub-contractors, settling property transactions, the list goes on.

When buying a house, I remember having to withdraw $60k in cash from my savings bank account and walking over and depositing it in another because it would take the other bank 3 working days to clear a bank-cheque. Some banks do offer an over-night inter-bank mechanism, but surprisingly CommBank does not.

I don't think it was designed for what you want to do. Interesting problem: fast efficient payment of GST-incurring and other taxable money in a low doc manner.

> NPP is a joke. There's a limit of $1,000 for transfers. It doesn't always work if you don't use a PayID.

ANZ have a $5000 limit. It's down to the bank to enforce this.

I'm fairly sure this is to ease it into use. I would assume that as it becomes more ubiquitous (many banks don't even have it yet) the limit will increase.

Brazil - Sistema de Pagamentos Brasileiro (Brazilian Payment System) 2002

https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/paymentsystem

> Guidelines for the Brazilian Instant Payments Ecosystem: The Brazilian instant payments ecosystem will have a flexible and open participation structure and will be similar to the existing interbank electronic funds transfer (TED)—with greater availability, speed, and simpler addressing of payments. The transactions will be performed in a simple and fast way to different beneficiaries. Moreover, the BCB (Brazilian Central Bank) will develop a single settlement infrastructure.

While BACS' 24h clearing of interbank transfers was normally ok, FasterPayments really makes having multiple accounts split across bank's super convenient.

My wife and I both have our own accounts with Barclays and joint accounts (and mortgage) with Nationwide, and I have a Monzo account for small day to day expenses. It takes me less than a minute to open the Barclays app, transfer some money to the joint account, and then open the Nationwide app to confirm the balance and do whatever I needed to do from there. Total money management game changer. I've done a four hop transfer from my savings to overpay the mortgage, in about three minutes.

Don't forget the best of them all India - UPI (2016) https://www.npci.org.in/product-overview/upi-product-overvie...

Hopefully Canada next and no, Interac isn't an equivalent service.

Why isn't interac equivalent?

Interac is designed for consumer-to-consumer transactions and isn't automated like these systems.

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