ThorShield Energy Weapon Protection Fabric | Hacker News Reader

ThorShield Energy Weapon Protection Fabric

thorshield.com

67 pointsrolph68 comments

Two things: I’m sure current body armour is resistant to tasers, as the prongs need to hit you in order to work, and if your armour is stopping a knife or a bullet, two measly little pins aren’t gonna make it.

If you want a cheap and trivially accessible alternative to this, a fencing Lame will fit the bill perfectly. It’s a metal conductor in the shape of a vest or jacket. Whilst I haven’t ever been tazed wearing one, I imagine it would handle it just fine.

I have fired non-consumer Tasers a number of times (at targets, not a living things). The thin needles of a Taser are more likely to pentrate armor than a lage knife. And a knife is more likely than a bullet. Bulletproof vests are not necessarily knife proof, they capture bullets by binding them and dissipating energy rather than stopping them dead (that is what ballistic plates/inserts are for)

That said needle proof vets are common and used by law enforcement.

I was trying to work out why on earth you would need to wear a metal conductor whilst erecting a fence and then I realized that you mean the sport of fencing. Ha, ha.

Ironically, their website shows “Not Secure” in my browsers when visited, and rightly so: insecure HTTP, insecure session cookies, insecure offsite JS. I hope they can be convinced to improve their electronic weapon defenses to the same level as their energy weapon defenses.

I wonder if taser and other stun-gun manufacturers have a stake in this or other companies like it. Kick-start their own little arms race by building a market then double-dealing. Far-fetched?

Not far-fetched. That's how the entire arms industry works.

Nope, not far-fetched at all - why wouldn't they want to profit from both sides of their weapons?

I mean there may be national laws and such prohibiting or restricting them, but a starting a new company is easy enough to set up (for bigger businesses).

Props to their QA department.

Neat! I'd love to see the rise of a high end clothing brand centered on making clothes with kevlar and other novel materials to create a comfortable washable clothing with a higher protection factor.

I am at a loss as to what your threat model might be where that makes some kind of sense.

Criminals use the weapons this protects against? Crowd control situations.

I imagine this is more for police than the opposite

I don't think it's crazy to suggest the creation of fashionable items with enhanced protection.

At the high-end, bulletproof suits and luxury vehicles certainly have a market that already exists today.

You still have to dissipate all of that energy. All a kevlar suit jacket is going to do is allow you to easily pull the bullet out of your chest. Getting shot while wearing a vest still causes immense bruising and can still break bones. Kevlar clothing would be more stab and slash resistant.

But they could still protect you from a whole bunch of accidental injuries. Eg stepping or falling onto a rusty nail or sharp glass or a rock. Protective clothing that would double as regular clothing could make you safer against that.

Actually kevlar is already used in motorcycle equipment to assist with abrasion resistance/heat friction in slides. For example I've a button up fleece shirt layered completely with an aramid on the inside. Comfortable, normal looking and most importantly functional.

And kevlar jeans are very common for motorcyclists nowadays (I have a pair and they are pretty comfortable).

If I could pay $400 for bulletproof knifeproof jeans - that are as comfortable as regular ones, I probably would. It isn't necessarily a rational decision, but it would offer a small amount of peace of mind plus a cool factor.

Woodworking, gardening, kitchen - several activities would be slightly safer with some extra stab/slash-protection.

I don't understand why this is cool or what it would protect you from? A dress shirt maybe but who's stabbing or shooting legs?

My threat model is less concerned about intentional violence, and more about accidental injury. If I can reduce my chance of accidental death by 1% for a few hundred bucks, that would be cool, if not necessarily economically rational.

Oh, I want the dress shirt too! Heck, I'd wear a helmet with a HUD if it was comfortable and socially acceptable.

At that price point it's entirely rational.

> wear a helmet with a HUD if it was comfortable and socially acceptable

Google glass suggests you'll be waiting a while, I'll be right there with you though. Maybe in Japan one day?

Do you require vision correction, and if not, do you wear glasses anyway?

> My threat model is less concerned about intentional violence, and more about accidental injury. If I can reduce my chance of accidental death by 1%...

We don't live in a world where loaded small arms are distributed about your everyday environment as in video games where they're just laying about on crates which mysteriously clutter offices, and also spontaneously discharge frequently [1]. Under that hypothetical threat model, I will grant that jeans and dress shirts which are casually bullet resistant would be a reasonable response.

Instead, a realistic threat model has a huge number of things you could spend your time and money on which would be more effective at keeping you safe. For example, upgrading to a newer car with better safety ratings, and taking extra time to drive slower and more carefully, could be effective in reducing the 0.012% chance you have each year of dying in a motor vehicle accident. That baseline is almost 100 times larger than your (in the US) 0.00015% chance of dying due to a firearm accident. To reduce that already miniscule chance, not keeping a gun in your house, avoiding firing ranges, and avoiding hunting areas would be more effective than everyday Kevlar.

[1] Relatively frequent accidental discharge would be an interesting mod for a first-person shooter. It could help teach good muzzle control if you handicap yourself or your teammate before the match even starts.

Not accidental bullets, but bits of construction shrapnel, knife or yard tool accidents, etc.

Your footnote game mode sounds cool. Could have a 'finger on trigger' toggle and autofire if your reticle at a friendly target with finger on trigger. Make maps that force friendlies to walk infront of each other freqently (halls, etc).

You're much more likely to be injured by an automobile than a weapon like a knife or gun.

Isn't that why motorcyclist also wear clothes embedded with kevlar?

I'd also be interested in clothing that could reduce injury in the event of an automobile attack, but I suspect many of the solutions would be excessively bulky and thus uncomfortable.

Anticipatory airbags would be really cool if you could get the false positive rate acceptably low.

It's mostly magical thinking because it's so very unlikely, but in the odd event of a mass shooter this would come in handy.

And I'm kind of at a loss as to why someone would question the desire for this. The statement is that it's literally as comfortable as a regular piece of the clothing, so the only downside here I see is an increased cost. Given that I'm sure some people pay close to or more than $400 for designer versions of jeans, it seems to me to be at least as good an investment of the money as that choice.

Put another way, would you pay $1500 for a car that had a bulletproof exterior if it didn't affect the look, feel or handling/visibility? I think a lot more people would opt for that, and for similar reasons.

People routinely spend much more money on things with much less utility, so I'm all for it.

What is the tear resistance of the jeans of your fantasy?

If they are so resistant that medical grade shears cannot cut through them then the practical utility may drop below zero.

I’ve personally experienced medics trying and failing to cut through fencing kit that’s designed to be stab resistant (ish). It’s not fun at all when you have an injury and they can’t treat it cause of your protective gear.

I met a kendo instructor who told me that swordsmen can get a very quick kill by aiming for the inside of the leg. There are some blood vessels there which will drain out very quickly causing unconsciousness and death.

This one has been making rounds in movies and TV shows like Dexter:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery

More potential attackers are aware of it now. Whether that's a risk that's going to play out for real is anyone's guess.

Baggins-sis that stole the precious.

We’re not even close to having the tech for bulletproof clothing that’s the same weight as jeans. Most level 4 body armor is either ceramic plates or steel plates. For level 2 (9mm), there are vests as light as 5 lbs. Midweight jeans typically weigh around 1 and would likely weigh 10+ lbs with the lightest level 2 available and be much thicker and stiffer.

Along with the invention of new tech, the price point seems at least an order of magnitude off for the foreseeable future.

A mere $160 will already get you motorcyclists' kevlar-lined jeans [1] - you can even get a kevlar lining inserted into your current clothes [2], for €159.

Of course, they're a bit less comfortable than non-lined jeans, as the kevlar doesn't have much stretch; and the manufacturer doesn't explicitly rate them as being bulletproof.

I can also assure you the cool factor wears off pretty quickly :)

[1] https://www.dragginjeans.com/mens/mens-blue-comfort-slim-fit... [2] https://www.rusteprotection.com/

Kevlar gloves are cheap [0]. I use them in the kitchen for chopping and for hot metal work in the studio. Although steel is a poor heat conductor, when blacksmithing I can hold the steel closer to the red-hot area and longer when wearing these gloves. Cowboys also use them for calf roping to prevent rope burns; I used to buy kevlar gloves at farm and ranch stores before Amazon carried them.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Glove-but-Fully-Protection/dp/...

If you play it right, sense may become secondary.

The executive protection market would be a great target for this.

Protesting against the government, for one. Police crackdowns on protests have gone ever more aggressive over the last years, plus police has been more and more militarized.

A lot of folks live in areas where muggings and gang-related murders are common. Extra protection at an affordable price is something they might appreciate.

Not cheap, but it exists: https://miguelcaballero.com/en/home-3/

I'd look into kelvar shirts and "riding" jeans sold to motorcyclists. It's not gonna stop bullets but knives maybe.

I heard the jeans especially are just as comfortable as denim (since people are used to rather rough denim pants anyways I guess)

Oh, like John Wick's "ballistic" suit coat?

I was thinking the other day I would like to have some cool and lightweight pants for hiking that are highly resistant to stinging nettle, multiflora rose, etc -- and that some kind of hi-tech synthetic material might be better for this than jeans.

That does exist to some extent. See https://www.slash-pro.com/products.

Interesting. I'm pretty sure people already rolled their own version of this years ago. One possible countermeasure is simply to lengthen the prongs of the taser and coat the base of the prong with an insulator. The clothing may still provide an alternate pathway depending on how well it is in contact with your skin.

i bought conductive thread many years ago with the intention of sewing it into clothing for just this purpose, but then reassessed my general threat position, and realized i could probably put it to better use as lighting for a halloween costume.

You could use it to make gloves that work with touch screens!

FAQ needs to include: Won’t the police just shoot me if their Taser doesn’t work?

Upsell kevlar vest.

They are marketing this to police.

They are, but you have to wonder how frequent a threat this is. I'm guessing anyone willing to shoot police is most likely not going to use a taser.

There are countries (such as the UK) where it's not so easy to get hold of firearms. Having said that, though, I am not sure how easy it is to get hold of a Taser here either.

> They are, but you have to wonder how frequent a threat this is

I don't think this kind of response is really that common in the tactical gear market.

This company needs to sponsor the Storm Area 51 event.

I...isn’t this sort of focusing on the wrong thing? How many criminals storm police and military installations armed with stun guns?

Seems odd that their advertising is “with the rise of consumer tasers used for home defense...” who exactly are their intended customers? Home invaders?

Also is it really smart to take away the police’s nonlethal tools in a premeditated fashion? Do you think it’s going to help your family’s wrongful death suit when your body is wrapped up in anti-taser gear?

Seems like they could be suggesting that Tasers are going to become the new saturday night special, a cheap tool to incapacitate someone. Conductive clothing is cheaper and I'm sure hurts a lot less than body armor stopping a bullet.

Their intended customers are probably tacticool bros who want to spiff up their LEO LARPing.

> who exactly are their intended customers? Home invaders?

Sure. That is, SWAT teams.

In that case, it's probably even a better idea. If the choice is a SWAT officer being somewhat immune to or being fully affected by a current strong enough to affect muscles, I would rather they be immune to whatever degree they can be, just because those muscles are probably in control of an automatic weapon.

That doesn't really help that the SWAT team probably shouldn't even be there 99% of the time, but I'll still take any small wins that are offered.

In many states in the US, there are no restrictions to buying, owning, and conceal carrying a Taser (the one that shoots barbs). Even felons can own them in most states. Compare that to a pistol that has all kinds of restrictions on ownership and possession. In cities where Taser or stun gun use by criminals is high, cops and regular people may be interested in wearing this kind of stuff. I don't really know if that is a real issue though, you rarely ever hear of someone using a Taser or stungun in a crime.

Well, right now, it's being advertised to a large number of computer programmers with disposable income, on HN.

If you need this, can't you just run a layer of tinfoil under your shirt?

You would want something thick enough that the barbs don't punch through. Tinfoil would punch through easily and the barb would just keep going. You need something thick and conductive.

Two layers of aluminum window screen sandwiched between some fabric might work.

Shouldn't matter if it punches through so long as it maintains contact, as it should have significantly lower resistance than your body?

I was wondering that too - what's the difference between a layer or two of heavy-duty aluminum foil under your clothes and this product? (it may not stand up to daily use, like for law enforcement use, but most people don't need it daily)

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