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Comment by tdb7893 | Hacker News Reader

I was blown away when someone told me they wanted a natural diamond. It seemed crazy to me, I don't get why someone would want to pay more for an identical (except for the fact that it was likely mined unethically) stone. I don't think any of my friends have a natural diamond but that's probably partially the people that I hang out with.

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I've been poking my head in periodically and have yet to see the massive savings of lab-created diamonds, or even moissanite. I keep expecting that the market will have shifted—last time I expected it was when moissanite for jewelry's patent ran out—and one or the other will be down to only a little higher than low-quality replacements like CZ, but it's not happened. They still seem really high to me. Cheaper, yes, but still expensive. Especially lab-created diamond.

I mean I'm on board with not buying natural diamonds and all and it's not like I wanna buy any of these for myself anyway, but I don't think there'll be a full collapse in the natural diamond market until the two best alternatives put some serious price pressure on them.

[EDIT] just checked again, 0.75c and up lab diamonds of middling (by gemstone standards) quality or better sure seem to still be like $2,000+. And 0.75c is merely on the large side of "modest".

Large moissanite stones are vastly cheaper than equivalent-quality natural diamonds at trade prices; if you can afford a decent .75ct diamond, you can afford a 15ct moissanite. When cut correctly, moissanite is visibly superior to diamond in fire and brilliance. That's a large part of the reason why small synthetic stones aren't as cheap as you might hope - it takes about the same amount of skilled labour to properly cut a natural diamond, a lab-grown diamond or a moissanite. CZ stones are cheap and look cheap, in large part because they're crudely cut.

Yeah, I checked Moissanite again after the post and it actually has gotten pretty cheap. Maybe $400 for a pretty good 0.75ct. That's more like it, and yeah, probably is cheap enough that it's mostly the cut you're paying for.

I haven’t personally seen a moissanite with greater fire and brilliance than a really well cut diamond, although what you said about the cut probably applies here since moissanite has a higher refractive index. Where would you shop for high quality moissanite? So many of the places that sell them seem to focus on being cheap unfortunately.

CZ also has the problem of being softer and more subject to environmental forces, as gems CZ ages much faster.

China disrupting world’s diamond sector, tapping sophisticated technology to produce cheap synthetic alternatives https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3020399/china-disrupti...

Seems pointless for a country to have foreign exchange used to import carbon crystals when they can be made locally.

The suffering increases its value in their mind. They're not wearing a stone on their finger, they're wearing the effort and pain of many people.

"they're wearing the effort and pain of many people"

well, mostly the husband's

In whose mind? I'm 35 and all of my married friends have diamond engagement rings. I don't think any of them think that way.

The problem with man made diamonds is that like any technology, they'll get progressively cheaper as the production technology gets better. We saw that in a huge way when De Beers rolled out their Lightbox line and undercut pretty much everyone.

Is that really a problem? It sounds perfectly fine to me

It’s a problem if you want to consider something such a nice jewelry or a wedding ring as an investment. I would guess that some people buy the real thing because it’s less likely to lose its value over time?

That’s just my guess.

I'm not sure what you mean by "less likely to lose its value over time". If you buy a natural diamond in retail it lost more than half its value the moment you bought it. (it was never worth the retail price to begin with) As an investment, it's a terrible idea.

I'm not saying it's a good investment, to be clear I know absolutely nothing about diamonds. I was just sharing a potential reason why people may favor natural ones over manufactured ones. If the process to make synthesized diamonds becomes cheaper faster than a natural diamond lose its value, then you might be better off with the natural one if you consider it strictly from an investment point of view. Losing 50% of its value after purchase may be better than losing an potentially more after a few years once the industry figured out a way to manufacture diamonds at a way lower cost.

And that's a problem how?

Speculators will speculate - what matters is that more goods are accessible to more people.

It's a problem for the person who doesn't want their good to depreciate.

Because mined diamonds have at least some resale value compared to the lab grown diamonds prices - which are a race to the bottom.

A 1 carat diamond costs about $6000, a 1 carat Moissanite stone costs about $600. Even if you could resell the 1 carat diamond for $3000 (you can't, they depreciate in value once you leave the store faster than a car when it leaves the lot) it would still be 3-4x cheaper to buy the Moissanite stone.

I can understand someone preferring a stone formed by natural processes over æons and discovered by a miner over one created in a factory.

I can also understand someone preferring a stone crafted to exacting technical standards over one randomly found in nature.

They're just different ways of looking at the world, and that's okay. Me? I kind of like the romance of a stone which formed before the first man climbed down from the trees, but I don't begrudge anyone his scientific marvel either.

>> I kind of like the romance of a stone which formed before the first man climbed down from the trees, but I don't begrudge anyone his scientific marvel either.

There's a lot of those out there that cost basically nothing and are not unethically mined, however. So, why diamonds?

> So, why diamonds?

Diamonds are generally a 'good' engagement ring feature from the chemistry/physics stand-point:

Pearls will melt in a variety of acids like vinegar, along with many other 'organic' materials.

Some stones also have strange chemical interactions and can change color or will patina with age (Fluoric acid, water from hot-springs, etc).

Some stones are 'soft' and will scratch over time as they wear and may need to be replaced (Rhodo, peridot, etc)

Some stones can build up internal stresses as they age and will become brittle (highly unlikely though, though possible)

The index of refraction of many stones does not produce as large of a 'sparkle' that diamond does (though others like zircons will be much more 'sparklely')

Generally, diamonds are relatively inert chemically and very very hard to scratch or damage, all while having a good enough 'sparkle' and are able to be found in large quantities. Though their prices are currently absurd, they are a good choice from a materials standpoint.

Diamonds burn.

At 900° C, or about 20% of the temperature of the surface of the sun. I actually thought it would be higher!

Low enough to be burned in a house fire.

They will also theoretically degrade back to graphite over time, the way ice degrades to water at room temperature.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Carbon_basic_phase...

If that was the only point of distinction, I'd be right there with you. But the fact that natural diamonds are quite likely to have been mined using what amounts to brutal slave labor (even the ones that are "certified ethical," because these people have no qualms about subverting the certification process) is a pretty big issue for me.

I'm still blown away people want a shiny piece of dirt on their finger at all.

I too fail to comprehend why carbon crystals cause humans to secrete pleasure transmitters. I only secrete pleasure transmitters when solving abstract coding problems, and contemplating the agreeable weather up here on my elongated equestrian pedestal.

Jonathan is that you? [1]

[1] https://www.theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-d...

That's the power of advertising!

You can do it with anything. Spend enough on advertising, and you can get people to hand over $100+ for a pair of sunglasses that cost $5.85 to manufacture.

Maybe you are immune, sitting up there on your elevated equus.

There was a exhibit a few months ago. I am haunted by the Mirror of Paradise. Only a carbon crystal... ;-D

https://www.gia.edu/gia-news-research/mughal-jewels-auction-...

I'm amazed at how many people apparently can't see the obvious humor in your response. They must be the same people who think the onion is a real new source.

It is pretty dirt.

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