A Global Trash Glut Hurt a $25B Industry | Hacker News Reader

A Global Trash Glut Hurt a $25B Industry

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This would be a good place to point out that most plastic and paper recycling is worse in practice, in terms of emissions and chemical pollution. The only solution is to use far less plastic. Durable products should be preferred. Items that are disposable are much better off being wood, and deposited in a good clay-lined landfill afterwards.

However, this requires tough choices, so it's easier to have a blue bin and decide you've figured it out.

Six Times More Plastic Waste is Burned in U.S. than is Recycled

https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/pft/2019/4/29/six-...

Burning waste to generate energy is unfortunately the least impactful to the environment. The best is obviously reduce, reuse.

Can't this be a 'make work' project? Get people working.

Or, sort recycling/garbage for half a day, and get half a day of free technical training in something like welding or auto mechanics?

The problem is not a lack of people sorting. Quite the opposite, in fact. There is a glut of sorted recyclables and the prices people can get for it have collapsed.

If the recycling were getting sorted for free, more recycling stations would be viable businesses.

Not really. The bigger problem at the moment is that the market for recycled materials has effectively disappeared. No one is buying these commodities right now. Chinese government owned businesses spent a lot of money buying US paper and plastic mills then shut them down so they could bring those industries to mainland China. Then they discovered that it wasn't as good a business as they hoped. Now they have stopped buying our recycled materials so prices have dropped. Some commodities prices have even gone negative, meaning recycling facilities are paying to have materials removed from the warehouse. So even if sorting was free, most materials are either sitting in warehouses or simply going into the landfill. source: I work in the industry.

I work in the industry too. I'm always curious about what other's in this industry do when they're on HN, so if you're able can you share what you do?

As far as me: I'm the lead engineer for the mobile and api products at one of the major software providers for independent waste haulers in the US. My family owns and operates a hauling operation in CA, so I've spent my entire life surrounded by the inner workings of solid waste collection, hauling, and processing.

I'm an software engineer as well. I work for one of the top 3 waste management companies. I've worked on both consumer side web/mobile apps as well as operations side projects, both in hauling and MRF operations.

Thanks for sharing! If you go to Waste Expo (not sure if the big 3 send software engineers), it'd be cool to grab a beer and connect.

IT doesn't get to attend Waste Expo, but we can go to WasteCon in Phoenix this year.

Oh interesting, we generally don't go to WasteCon due to how focused it is on public sector since we have a better product fit with independent haulers (we do have several municipalities using our software though). Maybe we should be going though - always good to expand our horizons. Feel free to shoot me an email at: my first name at edisoncode.com

Even if commodity prices are negative, there’s still a price where it’s cheaper than landfill, no?

It really depends on the region since landfill rates vary wildly. In California: most likely yes since landfilling is relatively expensive, but again depends.

Waste haulers have always had a non-zero expense for recycling even when the processed materials had strong values. This is because the recycling has to be collected, transported, sorted/processed, then shipped again. Depending on the local market, regulations, incentives/subsidies, and distances involved for shipping it can very easily end up that a negative commodity price tips the scales in favor of landfilling.

Also, it's worth noting that some portion of the recycling stream will end up in a landfill regardless of the commodity price because it's contaminated (or just not a recyclable material) which has an impact on the overall cost per ton of recycling. Commodity prices going negative just push this to include more of the stream since it means only the "best" materials are economically viable for further processing and shipping. It's a balancing act that the industry has been doing internally for a long time, but now it's becoming a serious issue since large amounts of the recycling stream need to be landfilled if we don't want to spend a whole lot more than we already do on solid waste.

It can be, but in some cases there are simply no buyers at any price point. And there's no way anyone is going to spend more money building larger warehouse to hold the commodity. So it get stacked until the warehouse is full, then operators have no choice but to put it in the landfill.

Welding is a very highly skilled profession while 'auto mechanics' is now increasingly highly specialized and restricted by manufacturer DRM.

I guess that's a good question for Moodi

Like everything else, where would the money come from?

A tax to capture the cost of the trash being thrown away.

'China, which buys most of the world’s garbage, and the U.S., which sells the most. Last year, China dramatically cut the amount of garbage it buys'

When the trade war first shots were being fired, China stopped being the USA's garbage disposal service. The 'buying' and 'selling' is a little disingenuous here IMO

China's Waste Ban Is Causing A Trash Crisis In The U.S. (HBO) https://youtu.be/NK20t11He14

“China's Waste Ban Is Causing A Trash Crisis In The U.S.” This statement is also disingenuous. Consumption and general lack of care in the US is causing the crisis in the US.

> The reduced demand from China and continued supply from the U.S. flooded the world trash market and drove down the price of garbage everywhere.

This sentence doesn't make sense. If there is more demand for trash recycling, how is it not driving the price up?

I think the fall in the price of waste is because there is a glut in the raw material (recycled paper, plastic pellets etc.) that come from the garbage. So it looses it's value because the materials it produces has lost value.

Governments don't pay for recycling when dumping is a cheaper alternative.

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