Worried Delivery Drivers Are Eating Orders? You Have Good Reason | Hacker News Reader

Worried Delivery Drivers Are Eating Orders? You Have Good Reason

restaurantbusinessonline.com

30 pointsgilad31 comments

>The drivers for third-party delivery services have deeper gripes, according to the research. Their top complaint, shared by 60% of that community, is getting a lousy tip or no gratuity at all.

So maybe ... they should be getting paid a fair wage then? If literally our only human interaction is you handing over a box, what am I tipping for?

Typically food delivery service you tip because the delivery person did their best in the conditions to be quick, not leave the restaurant for extra unpaid waiting, not leave the restaurant emptyhanded, handle the poorly packed food, maintain it's temperature, find you through various layers of location that may not be specifically noted (community, building, wing, level, find the stairs/elevator, door), contact you because you were too lazy to give all the necessary info, and the legwork/schlepping things you want to you at whatever ridiculous time of day or night you were too lazy to go get it yourself.

You know, normal bs stuff you didn't want to deal with, and probably worth more than the $3 or whatever they were paid for the trip that is supposed to cover their expenses as well and some dead time between trips. Pretty sure waitressing pays better after all is accounted for.

Additionally, getting tips on the app (instead of cash) provides almost no benefit to drivers usually because of the way the apps/algorithms hand out work. If you start making more in tips, you probably won't break over your typical takehome for the day/week as it is averaged/washed out in your total earnings (tips included) that are spread out so no one earns more money (even if they deserve it for a job well done/hustle).

Finally, what you pay in surge pricing does not usually go to the driver. That surcharge goes to the app, and sometimes the app has to pay the driver a surge rate, but usually not (this is called arbitrage). Again the same averaging applies and surge pays usually don't increase your overall takehome pay.

"""did their best in the conditions to be quick, not leave the restaurant for extra unpaid waiting, not leave the restaurant emptyhanded, handle the poorly packed food, maintain it's temperature, find you through various layers of location that may not be specifically noted (community, building, wing, level, find the stairs/elevator, door), contact you because you were too lazy to give all the necessary info, and the legwork/schlepping things you want to you at whatever ridiculous time of day or night you were too lazy to go get it yourself."""

That's the job definition and it's a crappy job. These companies are paying their employees poorly and try to guilt customers into picking up their slack.

>These companies are paying their employees poorly and try to guilt customers into picking up their slack.

Well put. I haven't seen a better description of modern tipping in the US, yet.

Really not sure what your point is ethically or otherwise. Are you saying you should not tip? Should you not tip a person for good service? Really hard to fathom a reason you need to use the service in the first place. I suppose one could make the argument that if you request/use the service and don’t tip, you are actively participating in perpetuating the crappy business model of crappy businesses and crappy jobs that are setup to be unfavorable situations for the workers while everyone else benefits at the workers expense. That doesn’t sound very ethical because you simply don’t desire to feel some kind of guilt if you don’t tip. How about choosing not to patronize a service and system that is setup to take advantage of said workers? As I mentioned, it is really difficult to fathom a situation you need to use such a service like food delivery or selecting a restaurant with wait staff. Just make other arrangements and don’t patronize those services in the first place. If you do find yourself using such a service, leave a tip (cash if an app) for a good job that says I know you probably get screwed over a lot by the man/system, but I’m more enlightened than others that feel entitled to choose to use the service and not tip. It’s really that simple.

You are conflating two senses of the word "should."

Should you throw out expired milk? In one sense, no, you shouldn't let it expire. Use it faster, or buy less. In the other sense, yes, why leave it in the fridge?

Nobody in this conversation is trying to get out of tipping people who aren't making a living base wage. We all agree it's a moral duty. Our claim is that wages should be higher so we shouldn't have to tip, eventually.

And, yes, I would in fact disagree with tipping a person for good service. Everyone deserves a living wage, good service or not. If they don't meet your expectations, complain to their employer (chances are the cause of your bad service is out of their hands), and tip them anyway, every bit as generously as someone who provided good service. This too is a moral obligation.

Respectfully disagree with your assertion that no one here wants to get out of tipping people "not making it." The "I don't tip" sentiment is just a prevalent here as I have heard from drivers themselves that many people will purposely choose not to tip for going the extra mile. Most people here, just as in the real world are completely ignorant how the system actually works, how much the delivery person really takes home, and who is getting the short end of the stick between the worker, the restaurant, the customer, and any app service.

You prefer to refer to moral obligations, I prefer to call it like it is. Don't act like an ass and expect discounted food delivered at some poor person's expense but your own. Also if you are a bad delivery driver (some exist, yes) don't expect a tip if you fuck up badly or really sucked... don't hit my car or my garage door (both have happened).

Put yourself in someone else's shoes and obey the golden rule. No need to debate right and wrong, shoulds, oughts, and obligations, morals, duties, ethics, values, and philosophy. Just don't be lazily uninformed, have some empathy and conscientiousness, and treat other people the way you would want to be treated.

Doordash deducts the order from the tip. If the tip is smaller than the order, then the delivery guy gets nothing. I don't see what they are complaining about.

That is one app’s unique and shady policy that most customers are not aware of. Doordash customers that tip probably think the tip is going to the driver, but it’s really just going to doordash and subsidizing their costs paying the delivery person.

I really don’t follow how you are confused people are complaining except maybe you don’t fully understand the situation well enough.

I don't get delivery anymore unless it's first-party, which is becoming more and more rare as time goes on. I don't need to worry about tipping cash vs credit card/app, people eating my food, delivery time, etc. If the restaurant has an employee delivering food, it's a much better experience overall.

I've never had any issues with getting pizza delivered, but every single time I use a third party service the food is late, cold, and has 12 different service fees attached (as well as tip).

At least one person in this thread is smart.

Why not grab a bite when being paid next to nothing? Not too surprising, and rather practical thinking - since this way one can safe on expenses for food.

Containers should be sealed - I always found it interesting that that isn't the case anywhere.

Hot food in a sealed container is a recipe for soggy steamy food...

You'd need to design sealed packaging with vents before it could really work out.

You just need a normal container with vents which are fairly common and some tape that tears when the container is opened.

Quote: "They also readily cited service snafus. Thirty-four percent of respondents said they’d experienced a driver refusing to leave his or her car to hand over the meal. Twenty-nine percent said a driver refused to walk all the way to their door for the delivery. Nearly 1 in 5 (17%) reported that a driver had dropped the food at the door and left, without any interaction. "

And that's why I never pay in advance. Pay when delivered, to the delivering person, receive the receipt and done. And on expensive orders I test what I get before I pay. Usually this annoys the deliverer but I follow with : "Either you get this back and I will complain about you to your boss or stick around for 5 minutes and you get a tip". I don't mind tipping delivery persons, and on food I do like 5%, which is very much in my country and I can see their eyes lit. Sometime I get the same driver on my door several times in a row, apparently tipping is rare hence they make sure they get my order.

> either you get this back and I will complain about you to your boss or stick around for 5 minutes and get a tip

This is terrible and you should be ashamed of yourself. People who work for tips are at the low end of the power dynamic here and you are exploiting it in a very gross way. If you really do this, you’ve probably eaten some spit too. Don’t mess with the people who handle your food.

You're confusing my country with yours. On my country people are paid for their work, they don't live from tips, hence why is rare here.

Back when I used it, it was more surprising to get an Uber Eats order that included everything I ordered than for items to be missing.

Eating aka touching my food? off limits! period. Health & safety.

late I can stand - I have a microwave. I Order items that can be.

Do I need it? Most definitely - Especially when I hurt.

Gripes? impatient knocking. give me a min or two to get to the door. It helps if I can hear them coming up my walk / GPS track helps but it is sometimes not available or 5min old. see previous reason.

Deliver to the door. required. period. I have left feedback to the third party delivery sites to add SMS messaging to the driver apps so they can beep me when they arrive (and keep privacy).

I do quite hate having to tip before performance.

I have only had one non-delivery, and one missing items. On the missing item delivery, saw the driver goto a separate location entirely (GPS) before they dropped off my order. - out of about 60 orders.

Nothing would be surprising about this. Pretty standard practice since food delivery was established. Though if an algorithm is washing out any benefit of tips, I would not be surprised if said drivers might be helping themselves more to compensate for the resulting march of lower wages. I suggest giving tips in cash.

Or maybe just stop getting deliveries, the food is always worse, you siphon money from the restaurant into the hands of big companies.

Living in the UK i always wonder if i should tip the takeout driver.

No, why should you?

I don't tip, I think they should be paid a fair wage to begin with.

That said, if it's not directly from the eatery, I now try to skip UberEats/Deliveroo. Saves me money and I don't contribute to the gig-economy that is keeping down wages.

Tipping is subjective, and when people start to get an expectation of a tip (automatically added on service charges included) then it's no longer gratuity. We're doing the companies job for them.

You realize restaurants that directly employ the delivery persons have most of the same pitfalls as tipping using an app service right? If you don’t know how to understand how restaurant service persons are typically paid, it is better to not use the service at all than it is to not tip. You are still possibly supporting a very shitty business model unless you know that those delivery people are paid well without tips (most work on a tips basis for a big chunk of their wages).

Except the app service is taking close to a 30% cut on your order..

There was a complaint about feeling guilt-tripped into tipping to make up for the poor wages. That problem doesn't really improve much at all under the "now my delivery person doesn't work for an app." The tipping norms are still mostly the same, where the tip still accounts for a large portion of their takehome pay--basically everything above minimum wage, which is really low and many use their own vehicles, gas, insurance, etc. Not tipping would still be an issue... just as not tipping has been an issue 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago (and possibly longer for food delivery).

The point that most people are missing is: if you don't agree with the business model of expecting customers to pitch in extra for tips, you should not patronize those restaurants and not tip. Just don't order from those restaurants. The issue is not the lowly delivery person, but the business. That does nothing to solve the issue except you are very likely lowering one delivery person's paycheck. The business doesn't think gee, I should change the way I pay people because they still get their delivery order revenue.

I believe the tipping system is shit mostly, but I'm not about to order a delivery service that is completely voluntary (I don't need it to live) and plan on not tipping the person that works for tips. I would tip them or just don't order that delivery.

There is no tipping service for places that deliver food in the UK as part of their food business e.g. Dominoes pizza. Drivers are hired like regular employees and are paid a wage, they are not paid based on order numbers. Tips are at your own discretion (if you chose to pay by cash).

This is in contrast to these delivery apps where Ubereats for example does not even class them as employees and they are paid per order basis.

Nobody tips a Mcdonalds worker or most other fast food workers. I don't tip the person that delivers my packages from Amazon. These are examples of why tipping culture is so bizarre and subjective, once a good will gesture and now taken advantage of by businesses.

If the wages are bare minimum I'll stop using their service, but I won't tip so the business continue their model.

Yer, that is a strange thing, if i order direct from the eatery i don't tip, but if i order through deliveroo i do tip.

I will admit, working in a bar or restraint, having automatic gratuity is something i used to encourage, pretty much asking the table if they would like to tip the standard % is easier than digging out change.

pay them a decent salary and things like this will never happen

> Worried delivery drivers are eating orders?

Well, I wasn't …

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