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Comment by andrenth | Hacker News Reader

The other day there was a thread on HN where most people agreed that Amazon should pay France more taxes because even though it’s an internet business, it benefits from things done by the French government.

Maybe developed countries should start paying a tax to Brazil and other Amazon forest countries so that they can preserve it. After all, most didn’t do a good job preserving their own forests, so demanding underdeveloped countries to do it is somewhat hypocritical.

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At least Norway does: "Norway makes annual payments to Brazil as part of a long-term billion-dollar program to curb the loss of Amazon rainforest to slow global warming."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-brazil-amazon-idUS...

Why doesn’t Norway stop making use of all that fossil fuel they sit on?

Because this (or other) fuel is still necessary right now. The way they use the money also benefits the whole country. Cutting down the Amazon is not necessary and merely benefits a small number of farmers.

What about the rest of the world? Does Norway’s fossil fuel extraction do any good for the world?

Also Norway is taking steps to moving away from an oil based economy.

The comparison is invalid. This isn’t about ending existing means of supporting Brazilian society. These are about new measures that will (a) damage the rain forests, (b) almost certainly negatively impact ordinary Brazilians, and only enrich a few well connected folks.

The idea that killing the goose kind of growth will help ordinary citizens has shown to be false time and again in nearly every other nation.

Because that's literally how they fund their entire society? Even with the super high taxes, it's not enough to cover the level of social spending they are trying to maintain. Not to mention that it's also going into a fund for all pensions. In that way, it's great that the government kept control over the fossil fuels and that the money from them at least serves the Norwegian people.

Right, so practical reasons and sovereignty trump environmental consequences. This standard should be applied for all countries.

What kind of question is that? What is your intention, I mean?

In principle a nice idea, as we all depend on that forest, however, people like that would abuse this and extort other countries and demand more and more.

Bolsonaro is also simply wrong to claim that it is their forest, only because it is on Brazil ground. The whole world depends on it, so it must be a resource shared and kept up by all. Bolsonaro and people like him are holding such things like rain forest hostage. Please send in the military or something to wrestle control over such a valuable thing from that insane person. We can not afford to be extorted by the likes of him on a global scale, when time draws near, where the future of the whole species will be decided.

I agree with everything you said.

Bolsonaro is not claiming the forest for Brazilians. He's claiming it for his party and his allies, and for criminals that have been taking advantage of that.

The poor from Brazil don't stand to get anything at all out of this.

I’d like to see other countries sharing their own resources the whole word depends on first.

Such a tax seems game-theoretically unsound.

Instead western countries should ban imports of food products that are produced in unsustainable ways. It would apply to everyone equally and remove one of the main economic drivers behind deforestation

This ^^! Most people do not appreciate what truly being poor is like. If the choice is development or preserving the rainforest, Brazilians deserve the right to choose for themselves

Except destroying the rain forests is gonna do absolutely nothing to help the Brazilian poor.

So I’m not sure what being truly poor has anything to do with this. This will be almost entirely about displacing the poor, poisoning their water, and rewarding corrupt cronies.

Indeed. It's probably going to be even worse for the poor in the affected area from now on.

Illegal wood extraction doesn't only kill trees. Those criminals have historically killed citizens in order to prevent being caught.

> choice is development or preserving the rainforest

That's a false dilemma, though. There is nothing preventing us Brazilians from choosing both things, apart from wacko politicians.

Decide for themselves to destroy/change world climate even more? I do not think so. It is their responsibility to keep the rain forests in good shape. I agree though, that they should get help from all over the world.

Apparently, the native tribes don't get the right to choose.

There are ways to develop an economy other than destroying all of your resources within a generation. Any country that does it is doomed to poverty, and it’s kind of hard to feel sympathy for anyone endorsing such short term thinking.

Every rich country has done exactly this, so this doomed scenario doesn’t strike me as true.

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