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Comment by 24gttghh | Hacker News Reader

>Small numbers (1-3) of stuck or dead pixels are a characteristic of LCD screens. These are normal and should not be considered a defect.

I get that it's a $200 laptop, and it's open source which is commendable, but... this disclaimer does not instill much confidence.

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The wider quote makes a lot of sense:

> The company goes on to say the Pinebook Pro (and its low price) are being provided "as a community service to PINE64, Linux and BSD communities." Pine64 adds, "If you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the Pinebook Pro."

This isn't some big commercial operation...

Yes and I can appreciate that. But I don't think I've seen that kind of warning on something with a screen in over a decade.

It does look like they sell replacement screens directly on their site, but that looks like it's for the 'regular' 14" model. Not sure on their compatibility with the 14" 'pro'

I do not believe that screen would be compatible. If you look through their store, certain parts are specifically labeled as for Pro/not compatible with the original Pinebook. Posts in their forums imply that they will be supplying parts in their store that will be the higher quality Pro parts, including an ANSI keyboard.

The warning about dead pixels did scare me a bit at first, but I wound up taking the plunge anyway based on the price and other reports of Pinebook screens being fine. The free (for early adopters/forum users) upgrade to 128GB eMMC will offset the cost of swapping to an ANSI keyboard.

Lenovo stuck pixel policy is that 1-2 dead pixels is not a defect: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht004254

This is just bad reporting by "hot hard ware".

Every laptop manufacturer says this. It's the single reason I stopped buying anything from shops. When you go back to the shop and try and explain you don't care what the description/contract/website said - you want a display with no dead/hot pixels, they just shrug. When you buy it online (in the EU) you have a couple of weeks where you can just return it for no reason for a full refund.

The Distance Selling (as it's called in the UK, may vary where you are) regulations were designed to replicate the experience and protection you have purchasing in person, not to provide something stronger.

It's just easier to 'argue' with an automated form (you don't need to!) than with a person.

I couldn't tell you what they were designed for, but they were absolutely stronger in practice, as I have seen friends turned away from shops (yes, I'm in the UK) due to dead pixels, and the exact same shop would be entirely powerless to prevent you returning exactly the same laptop if bought online. It's not about easier - it's just different.

By the way, I didn't refer to the regulations as the Distance Selling Act as that no longer exists - it's been replaced with the Consumer Contracts Regulations.

The great thing about it is, the 2 weeks only start when you receive the item. And you can return for any reason. So I'd say the following: if the device contains _annoying_ dead pixels which you are unable to fix, return it. Simple. If they don't bother you, or you can't notice them (likely means they don't bother you) then stick with it. That's the rule of thumb I use with regards to screens. I only had once (in what was it 2003?) that I had to return a 2nd hand monitor from Germany to Netherlands with too many dead/stuck/whatever pixels. And I don't care that they find it possibly annoying. I'm not swimming in easy money...

Just for comparison, years ago those Korean companies selling A- quality IPS panels from LG (rejected stock from Apple displays, mostly, that didn't make it in) would give a similar disclaimer. Given even panels of that grade could have them (and I had seen user photos of such dead pixels, although not on all units) this doesn't seem out of the ordinary given the price point.

One wonders if they're able to get cheaper screens that have failed someone else's quality requirements?

No that's a pretty standard well-standard, if you go to lenovo/dell/etc. they generally will say 1-3 dead pixels is within normal conditions.

These guys are selling this at a loss (or near loss), they're trying to be upfront to lower the number of returns - and more importantly chargebacks and disputes.

Huh. I've only had one stuck pixel in my life and I was able to fix it by poking it with a pencil eraser. Guess I've been lucky. 3 in one screen is a lot.

Depends on how many pixels there are in total. I have two blue pixels on my 4K 28" display… if I'm able to see them, that means I'm sitting too close :D

It's not that dead pixels are common, instead that it's hard to guarantee none will occur at n% across a population of screens.

wait, you can just poke them away?

It depends on what's actually wrong, but in some cases, yes. Sometimes it's possible to unstick a pixel by just displaying the right sequence of colors; poking the screen is essentially a more brute-force variation of that.

And I’d bet that won’t work anymore with screens that are behind a sheet of glass

This is pretty standard language for most warranties. Apple used to make the same claim, although I'm not sure if they still do.

That takes me back. It was so depressing if you got a couple of red ones in the middle of the screen. I didn’t have it with Apple screens, it was some other vendor and I think they all did it.

I'm pretty sure they can't disclaim that kind of thing, certainly not if you're charging Apple prices. If you live in a country with actual consumer protection laws of course.

I'm telling you, this is simply standard. As I also said, I don't know if Apple has more recently changed their policy, or sourced different screens.

Here's a quote from Asus:

"Since LCD panel is made up of millions of micro electronic pixels, if one pixel no longer functions normally, it will become a bright or dark dot. By ISO 13406-2 standards, ASUS conforms to the acceptance level between 3 to 5 defective bright/dark pixels. In order to deliver ultimate vision experience to ASUS customer, if your panel is less than or equal to the above number of dots, then, it is considered as an acceptable LCD monitor.In addition, the Premium Range of ASUS LCDs offers a unique Zero Bright Dot (ZBD) warranty.Please refer to ASUS LCD Monitor Bright/Dark Dot Warranty Table below."

Your LCD display is possibly subject to replacement if it meets the criteria outlined in Table 1:

[excerpt from Table 1]

Threshold for warranty replacement

Bright = 1 or more [pixels]

Dark = 6 or more [pixels]

And here's an older (2010) article which describes the policies of many manufacturers, including Apple.

https://www.tested.com/tech/1337-we-uncover-the-dead-pixel-p...

I don't dispute that they're saying it. You can't disclaim basic legal minimums though.

I have an 11" Pinebook, can't see any dead pixels on it.

I also have the 11" pine book and I do not have any dead pixels as well.

Confidence costs money.

Definitely don't buy it if you're looking for confidence :P

then don't buy it and don't cry on a webforum about it? I'm not sure why everyone needs to treat everything like its being sold at Herrods

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