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Comment by mrep | Hacker News Reader

> In most of France, Belgium or Germany it's impossible to find apartments with ceiling fans or air conditioning.

My girlfriend's grandparents are still in france and the 108 degrees fahrenheit temperature that it is supposed to be tomorrow sounds miserable. The grandparent says that people are looked down upon for having AC so they had to buy the grandparent a fan but that doesn't help when it gets above the 98.6 degree body temperature.

> Possibly the worst offence in Germany and especially in Belgium is that you can't ask restaurants/bars for tap water. They'll refuse to serve you, and will ask you to buy bottled water. (Tap water is 100% safe, they just don't want to do the kindness)

We got a lot of problems here in the US, but I love that I can get tap ice water from every restaurant for free and I've even gotten free ice water from starbucks without buying anything. So nice.

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> "[fans don't] help when it gets above the 98.6 degree body temperature."

I'm not sure about that. It would be true with a spherical cow, but I don't think it's true when real people are involved because people sweat to cool down. I believe that phase change of water evaporating off your skin should continue to cool you down no matter how hot it gets, like a swamp cooler in Arizona. A fan should help this by rapidly replacing the humid air around you with more dry air.

(However my understanding is that evaporation cooling stops working once humidity hits 100%)

Humidity is the real killer. You can easily handle temperatures above 60C as long as the air is bone dry.

It's not 100% humidity, it's a flowing scale that depends on how much cooling you need to do via sweating.

If it's 10C outside, you don't need any sweating at all and the air humidity doesn't matter.

If it's 30C outside and 50% humidity, you're going to feel miserable, older folks could suffer under the stress.

From my experience, keep the sum of humidity in % and temperature in C below 100, better 80, to be comfortable.

I would say that if the fan is used as part of a ventilation scheme, yes the dehumidification, and moving air displacing hot air coming from your skin is helpful. If you're in a closed room you just get the benefit of moving air, which tends to be marginal.

As for humidity, the evaporative cooling from sweat should aid cooling until you hit 100% humidity (at which point sweat can't evaporate). But we're just talking about the mechanics of cooling here. If we're talking about human thermal comfort, which has been (with some debate) empirically quantified, thermal comfort only exists within a narrow band of temperature and humidity. So for example, a person sitting indoors clothed with typical summer clothing, will only be comfortable at a temperature of 27C at a humidity of approx 55% or lower (see this tool for more info: http://comfort.cbe.berkeley.edu/)

I never got why people are so into free tap water everywhere. Who goes into a restaurant, does not order anything, and asks for free ice water?

If I'm a restaurant owner and someone is taking up a seat while drinking free tap water, of course I'm not going to like that.

"Taking up a seat without ordering" is frowned upon. It's okay to dislike that as a restaurant owner. It's universally disliked, and barring exceptional circumstances, it's not a cool thing to do.

That is what the problematic behaviour with your described case is. "Free tap water", however, absolutely should be the standard. In Belgium, you will generally be refused tap water even if you're a paying customer with a 100 EUR bill. Whereas in France, it's illegal to refuse serving tap water… think about that.

If you're not allowed to drink tap water, you'll be drinking bottled water which creates plastic/glass waste and promotes a business that essentially repackages tap water.

I'm Belgian so I'm aware we don't really drink tap water. However, to say that tap water tastes exactly the same as bottled water is also a bit ridiculous in my mind.

At the end of the day I guess it comes down to preference. Perhaps a silly question, but why do you go for tap water? Just because of the waste issue? And a second question, why would tap water have to be free and would you pay for it?

PS: Cool business! Are you in Belgium?

> why do you go for tap water?

It's wasteful not to. I wouldn't say it tastes the same, but even though the water where I live is very chalky, I'm personally fine with it.

> why would tap water have to be free

Because it's virtually free to the restaurant. Having it free also promotes the healthy habit of drinking water instead of other drinks: When thirsty, if tap water is not an option, many people will choose soda over water… if you're paying for it anyway.

> would you pay for it?

If it's water I want, I'd rather pay for tap water than pay for bottled water, simply on the ethics of it. But I would find it absurd and disgraceful to charge for tap water. Remember, this is a custom that is standard in many countries.

> Are you in Belgium?

Brussels. Sablon to be specific :)

> Perhaps a silly question, but why do you go for tap water?

60% of the human body is made up of water (some parts more, some less):

* https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-school/scie...

Now there are certainly other beverages available, but at a restaurant the options are usually alcoholic or sugary. And if you're not into alcoholic drinks (lifestyle, health, or you are driving), and do not want to ruin your health with sugary drinks (pop/soda), what are the alternatives if you want something with your meal?

Yes, you can pay several dollars/euros for bottled water, but given that it is H2O, I'm not sure what value you're getting. Bubbles?

At some Asian restaurants they give you complementary (green) tea, which I like, but I still often ask for a glass of water.

After my meal I'm fine with getting a tea or coffee, but my friends and I usually do that at another place and not at the restaurant.

(I'm also not much of a beer or wine person, so if I order a vodka or whisky with my meal I get strange looks.)

>If I'm a restaurant owner and someone is taking up a seat while drinking free tap water, of course I'm not going to like that.

Not how it works. You get free tap water with your order. So no need to use up a plastic bottle.

In extremis you can sometimes walk in if a restaurant isn't busy, ask for a glass of water, drink it while standing, and leave immediately. You would never sit in such a circumstance

> In extremis you can sometimes walk in if a restaurant isn't busy, ask for a glass of water, drink it while standing, and leave immediately. You would never sit in such a circumstance

Perhaps I'm not used to it, but that sounds extremely silly and rude to me?

Like I said, in extremis. The same way you might ask to use a bathroom at a business you were not a customer at, or to borrow something from a stranger to solve a clear temporary need.

The sort of request that is granted with a smile if asked politely, and denied if asked rudely, basically. Part of the general fabric of society.

You would only ask if you'd been out a while on a hot day and were parched, or something similar. There's surely some social analogue not involving water where you live?

Lack of public bathrooms is a real shame and a failure in planning. It is a universal human right to access a bathroom in public places, or else be okay with people pissing and shitting wherever. I think the same should apply to water access. If no public access to water, businesses should carry that “burden”.

> Who goes into a restaurant, does not order anything, and asks for free ice water?

Never done that nor heard of anyone ever doing that. I've always ordered food/drinks and tipped at restaurants where I've gotten free water which is everywhere. The no pay example I cited is Starbucks which is an order and pick up coffee shop. I actually pulled out my wallet ready to pay for the cup of water but they were nice enough to give it to me for free which is probably a good idea in hindsight considering mint says I've spent $1200 there over the past 4 years and I appreciated that.

Starbucks is the only restaurant I've seen here in Belgium that will systematically give you tap water on request, no questions asked. They usually throw in some ice for you as well. I'm guessing they train their employees on that, because it's actually very non-standard behaviour over here.

Just the fact they do that makes me want to go there more often.

It’s not really charity, it’s a part of their business model. Same for bathrooms.

And Starbucks stock has never been higher.

I've never tried to go into a restaurant (or anywhere) and just ask for a glass of water, but I can't imagine anyone refusing one, even if you don't order anything. It's just basic courtesy.

Is that not what happens in other countries?

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