Study: Immigrants and their kids founded 45% of U.S. Fortune 500 companies
axios.com
axios.com
EDIT: Also, if this [1] is correct, 13.7% of people in the US are immigrants. So how many people are immigrants OR first-gen? And since ANY of the founders can be immigrants/first-gen, more founders means higher likelihood that it fits this criteria.
[1]https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested...
I'd be curious to see how the likeliness of refugees to reach higher income brackets over their lives compares to native-born Americans.
> By the time I was twenty, I had lived through a Hungarian Fascist dictatorship, German military occupation, the Nazis' "Final Solution," the siege of Budapest by the Soviet Red Army, a period of chaotic democracy in the years immediately after the war, a variety of repressive Communist regimes, and a popular uprising that was put down at gunpoint... [where] many young people were killed; countless others were interned. Some two hundred thousand Hungarians escaped to the West. I was one of them.
There are always fascists. Some people who "throw around" that word have correctly identified them, perhaps others are mistaken. Surely it is up to you to figure who's figured it out if you would like to prevent fascists from seizing power.
But maybe that's just my differing opinion.
Obama's immigration policies were criticised by liberals (as were many other aspects of his presidency, or are we going to rewrite history to state that OWS was just a public Obama fan-club gathering?). They were even outed by left-leaning publications and subject to a documentary on PBS.
Back on the topic of the comment you shifted away from - "deporting" in US-speak means sending people to a private prison where detainees are effectively forced to work, but without even allowing the accused their fair time in court. At some point after that they might get sent back to another country.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrants-free-leave-dete...
The one I always refer people to, written in 1995 but applicable to any time, is Umberto Eco's "Ur-Fascism". http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf - written from his personal experience as a young boy in fascist Italy at the time of its liberation.
The full essay is long and detailed, and interestingly contrasts Italian fascism with Nazism; Eco's view was that Nazism was a specific philosophy and programme that was capable of clearly delineating what it was about, while fascism was much less intellectually coherent.
> Fascism became an all-purpose term because one can eliminate from a fascist regime one or more features, and it will still be recognizable as fascist. Take away imperialism from fascism and you still have Franco and Salazar. Take away colonialism and you still have the Balkan fascism of the Ustashes. Add to the Italian fascism a radical anti-capitalism (which never much fascinated Mussolini) and you have Ezra Pound. Add a cult of Celtic mythology and the Grail mysticism (completely alien to official fascism) and you have one of the most respected fascist gurus, Julius Evola.
But he ultimately distils it down to fourteen characteristic points. It is up to the reader to apply them to modern movements and see how well the resemblance holds.
(cult of tradition; rejection of modernism; irrationalism; disagreement is treason; appeal against intruders; appeal to middle class; obsession with a plot against the nation; feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies; life is permanent warfare; popular elitism; heroism as death cult; machismo; selective populism & anti-parliamentarianism; and "newspeak")
> When he was eight, the Nazis occupied Hungary and deported nearly 500,000 Jews to concentration camps, including Auschwitz. Its commandant, Rudolf Höss, said at his trial that he killed 400,000 Hungarian Jews in three months.[9] To avoid being arrested, Grove and his mother took on false identities and were sheltered by friends.[7] His father, however, was arrested and taken to an Eastern Labor Camp to do forced labor, and was reunited with his family only after the war.[10]
> During the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, when he was 20, he left his home and family and escaped across the border into Austria. Penniless and barely able to speak English, in 1957 he eventually made his way to the United States. He later changed his name to the anglicized Andrew S. Grove.[1][11] Grove summarized his first twenty years of life in Hungary in his memoirs:
> By the time I was twenty, I had lived through a Hungarian Fascist dictatorship, German military occupation, the Nazis' "Final Solution," the siege of Budapest by the Soviet Red Army, a period of chaotic democracy in the years immediately after the war, a variety of repressive Communist regimes, and a popular uprising that was put down at gunpoint... [where] many young people were killed; countless others were interned. Some two hundred thousand Hungarians escaped to the West. I was one of them.[1]
The data shows the opposite effect: immigrants usually come to this country with lower levels of wealth and income, but catch up within 20 years because of higher saving rates and educational attainment:
https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/s...
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v68n1/68n1p31.html
If there's a selection bias, it's likely in other characteristics. Immigration selects for risk-taking, for example, because moving to another country is inherently a risk, and it also selects for people willing to work hard without a safety net. Both of these are characteristics shared with successful entrepreneurs.
I think it would tell a clearer picture to count the total number of founders and count the percentage of people who were immigrants / 1st gen americans. Then, to give context, you would want to compare this number to the % of people living in the US who are immigrants / 1st gen Americans.
I also think it's weird that Amazon was counted as "child of an immigrant". He was adopted as a child by his immigrant step-father after his mother's marriage - but he definitely would have been in America regardless of immigration policy...
Ah! I saw the 45% number and immediately wondered if this particular statistical slight of hand was being used. Thank you.
Moreover, a quarter of America’s population fits into the category of “immigrants or children of immigrants.” At the time many of these companies were founded, it was closer to 40%. If you count # of immigrant founders / # of non-immigrant founders, as you suggest, it could very well be that immigrants are underrepresented.
As someone else called it, these statistical slights of hand are selectively tolerated and are one reason that science, especially social sciences, have a lower level of trust than one would have initially assumed.
So I don't think it is 100% neutral in terms of its view on immigrants.
[1] https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/new-american-...
[2] https://www.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...
...And suddenly a wave of downvotes in less than 2 minutes. No justified concerns attached to them though.
Yes. As other commentators have noted, the methodology is terrible (counting a single immigrant cofounder as a "company founded by immigrants" even if the other 8 cofounders were all non-immigrants, counting a merged company as founded my immigrants if any of the companies that merged were founded by immigrants, even if those founders didn't have any role in the post merger world) and seems to have been chosen to give a specific conclusion.
Looking at the biases of the author usually gives a good heads up to these sorts of methodology problems.
Selective definitions were used. They weren't hidden for anyone willing to look into the details, but if this was a political move (I'm not saying it was, but if it was) then the people who did it would know full well that the headline would have far more penetration than any statistical critique with how terms were defined. Another poster here used the term 'slight of hand'. One could describe it, if it was a political move, as a form of deceit without being an outright lie.
Would you question a reply like "Please keep in mind that this opinion came from [a member of party X] / [a supporter of cause Y] so I don't think their opinion is neutral [period]" to one of your comments or remarks? And that's not even going into the whole "what's a 100% neutral opinion".
And so many downvotes for a question that was not leading in any way (offered both alternatives as equally probable) also suggests a bias to consider only the arguments that support your own views and react "aggressively" to anything that seems to clash with their beliefs.
First impressions matter. A job posting for an elite JavaScript ninja with 15 years of ES6 experience is going to have the creator of the job post judged very harshly, even if no other information is viewed. Sometimes that will be wrong, but it will be right often enough to be reasonable.
As for this particular case, an analysis of how they calculated the number has already been done by other who have posted under this same article. If you feel there is a flaw in their logic, you can reply to them directly.
>How is this different from anybody responding to a comment solely by attacking the person who wrote it and their political affiliations rather than attempt to discuss the actual content?
Because it is based on both the author and the content, and the nature of the disagreement is that the content is wrong for reasons that are only incidentally related to the author.
The argument isn't 'study is bad because author is bad. The argument is 'the combination of the author's own stated goals and the creative statistical freedom taken when calculating the figure leads me to believe there is significant bias in and behind this'. There is also a known issue of political groups injecting favorable bias in the work they do.
>Would you question a reply like "Please keep in mind that this opinion came from [a member of party X] / [a supporter of cause Y] so I don't think their opinion is neutral [period]" to one of your comments or remarks?
Well, I don't think any opinion is neutral (at least on matters of politics) to begin with and would overall trust someone who recognizes their biases more than someone who doesn't, even if that is stereotypical of me.
You bring up a valid point in identifying the authors of this study. I'm just not sure what a truly neutral position in that debate would look like.
Facts no longer drive these conversations, and it’s pretty unsettling to watch.
For example: It's pretty uncontroversial to say that ${N} persons cross the Mexican-to-American border, not at official government checkpoints, annually.
It's slightly more controversial to claim that ${M} of them are doing so illegally, because matters of law are complicated and matters of judgment.
But when we get to actual policy decisions, we have competing concepts of what's good and worth attempting. For example, how do we balance competing concepts of justice? How do we balance justice and mercy? What's the proper balance for the U.S. government regarding protecting immigrants vs. current residents?
Personally, I haven't found any good, reasoned way to argue about those metaphysical issues. I have personal preferences, and I know which things rub me the wrong way more than others. But in the end it seems like a matter of taste, so I'm not even sure it's worth trying to persuade others.
One approach is to try and adopt a system that has a minimal amount of assumptions and inconsistencies. This is the approach taken by economics. The core idea is that, if somebody is willing to exchange their labour/product of their labour for something, then they demonstrably value that thing more at that time than all other possible things for which they could have exchanged their labour/product of their labour. A surprisingly large body of reasoning is built upon this and little else.
This is why most economists, mainstream or otherwise, support immigration. The immigrant wants it, their employer wants it and their landlord wants it, otherwise none of them would have agreed to it, so preventing this arrangement prevents them from realising their top preferences at that time, forcing them to settle for a less desired outcomes. What about the fact it might put a local out of a job? That argument requires some kind of assumptions that how much somebody "deserves" a job depends on where they're born; it's hard to justify without adding extra axioms, and certainly not self-evident (many people argue it's unjust to descriminate based on place of birth). Similarly, what about the argument that immigration destroys cultural homogeneity? This requires some kind of assumptions to justify why cultural homogeneity is desirable, which are hard to even specify, as it requires first clearly defining the concept of culture.
An "economic think tank" that did a bunch of research into, and then published a study on, immigration, would then be an "economic and immigration think tank."
Frankly I'm annoyed that an organization can't declare itself "concerned with" a subject without people leveling claims of bias. Why would they do the study if they didn't care about studying immigration?
If there's an issue with the research, find it and argue against it. But "they're biased," nah, I don't bite.
Maybe we should distinguish between an article being neutral vs. a person holding a neutral view.
IMO, an article would be neutral if it provided the strongest arguments from all relevant viewpoints, including supporting data.
I'm not sure what a neutral view would be, though. Aside from taking a stance of agnosticism / uncertainty, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.
What it all comes down to is that like the rest of the world, the US needs to manage its influx of those seeking to immigrate here and yes, it should be able to reject any number of them.
Are you seriously asking?
>...according to a new study by New American Economy, a bipartisan pro-immigration group.
What I'm not seeing much of in the comments is how the debate around immigration has come to a very alarming place, with most of it having nothing to do with what actually occurs in reality. In my honest opinion, that discussion is far more important than the specifics of this study.
In practice I'm definitely NOT the kind of person these things are aimed at. Being a white Canadian dude who just moved a few hours south because the job market was more interesting isn't exactly a life changing experience or even challenging.
Still, if I founded a company, I'd be on that list. Worse, if my children were to found a company, they'd be on that list too, even though they wouldn't have an ounce of hardship (at least from birth situation) or diversity in their bones.
Come on, let's add then grandchildren, friends, lovers, people from the same middle school etc. Most of the time those kids are 100% Americans, who often might not even know the language of their parents.
Source: I'm an immigrant, and the situation: "kids are speaking Russian with me, but between themselves they prefer to speak English, and don't ask me about their writing skills in Russian" is very common among my circle.
An important distinction the media never makes. To actually get at the real controversy, they should study how many of these founders jumped a fence and used a fake social security number.
Maybe it had taken some more time but, locals would have ended up setting up these either way.
A big maybe.
China is an example that screams, immigrants do not matter much for economic success.
This is just plain wrong, in the case of Germany. Germany has a huge immigrant population, and has since WWII when they brought in tons of Turks to be laborers there. There's an enormous Turkish population in Germany, and it's not new. Germany probably would not be where it is now without them.
Japan and Korea don't have many immigrants, it's true, but they were both occupied by the US for some time (and Japan still is, in a way, as is Germany).
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/03/india-is-a-...
We're not talking about some local businesses. These are pretty much global companies with exceptional success. If Alphabet/Google was founded in the EU, it didn't matter how many small competitors would pop out elseware as they are currently.
~750K family based immigrants with no requirement for education and wealth requirements in the range of being slightly above poverty for some categories. ~120K refugees, with no requirements ~30K asylees, with no requirements ~50K diversity, with high school education requirement
vs
140K employment based, who you might call educated and/or affluent as it includes investors and people with advanced degrees.
1. https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017/tab...
I follow the subreddit r/IWantOut. Every day, someone asks about coming to the US, and we tell pretty much all of them "better get a Masters in Engineering first." The fact is, most people who would like to immigrate to the US are not refugees or related to US citizens. For most of them, the bar actually is that high. That we accept a lot of people from categories that not many people fall into, including ones that I would barely count as immigration (eg. "Child of a US citizen"), doesn't have much impact on the general case.
Additionally, I think it's important to consider the practical barriers in the system, not just the text of the laws. From what I've heard, the paperwork and fees involved can cost thousands of dollars, and the regulations are so complex that you need either top-notch English reading skills, or a lawyer.
Edit: I emailed the author of the piece and she confirmed that there was no breakdown.
I contrast this with literally dozens of people I know, some good friends of mine who are here to only make money so they can return back to the native country--they do not consider themselves to be American, nor do they consider America their home, and indeed still refer to their native land as "my country". American can function as a Nation with some residents having this visitor attitude--but Not with 10s of millions of people who simply reside here. It's common sense.
Some of the same analysis questions bring brought up now were also brought up in those earlier threads.
45% shouldn't be a surprise if so, you are basically comparing against the cream of the crop from every other country.
My parents were immigrants. My mother raised kids while my dad had two jobs that paid minimum wage. My annual comp at my day job is > $400K. My older sibling is a medical doctor. My family certainly came from no privilege at all. The only advantage we had was my father getting the opportunity to immigrate to the US.
Saying that 45% is all “cream of the crop” is a pathetic level of mental gymnastics.
The circumstances today could be somewhat different. That said, as a non-american looking at starting a company, America still looks like a pretty great place to do it, to the extent that I still sometimes think of moving.
[1] https://fortune.com/longform/fortune-500-through-the-ages/
Ww2 caused a lot of jewish immigrants to emmigrate from europe and some emigrated later from russia. They have been very successful in general. I am sure this particular population already skews the statistics already.
This is not about if immigrants didn’t found company X, an American could do it (well that’s valid about crimes and drugs too! Right?). It’s also not about if they were first generation or second generation.
I believe the study shows immigrants overall had a positive contribution and big impact. Either by themselves or their family.
And this is a good study for people that only see immigrants as a source of crimes and negative impacts.
I would like to know if any of 2% natives made it to fortune 500.
Anyone?
Anti-immigration reading: this just goes to show that there are too many immigrants in America.
1) Doesn't belong on HN.
2) Comments so far are unsubstantive -- ranging from "middlebrow dismissal" to flamebait.
3) Doesn't appear to be conducive to any sort of useful discussion.
Edit: Clearly I've struck a nerve someplace.From the article: "The share of the most successful and globally-recognized U.S. companies that have immigrant founders is growing, according to NAE's Hanna Siegel and Andrew Lim, while the Trump administration has tried to make it more difficult for immigrants to come to the U.S., often claiming that they take American jobs and lower wages."
No mention what type of immigrant founded these companies (and by founded, it could mean they were one of a couple cofounders) Most likely they were already highly educated or pursing an advanced degree in the US.
When you go to the source material from New American Economy think tank, they don't have any links to explain how they created this report, nothing about methodology. Its just hey believe us.
So the methodology, even a table listing every founder is in the linked 2011 report https://www.newamericaneconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...