Hong Kong Police Fire Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets at Protestors
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
Chaos and bloodshed in Hong Kong district as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists, residents
The group used bamboo sticks and other weapons to attack people in the area and in the West Rail Line station, injuring Democratic Party lawmaker Lam Cheuk-ting, who was seen bleeding from his mouth in a social media live stream.
I wonder if it’s like Maduro’s socialist ‘colectivo’ gangs [1] in Venezuela that rove around on motorcycles and assault and even murder anti-government protestors without punishment from the state. But obviously less serious and violent.
[1] https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-maduro-venezu...
Edit: there were accusations that HK gangs were 'hired' last time when a large group of weapon wielding gangs assaulted protestors in 2014: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/04/hong-kong-legi...
For another reporting of the triad attack, see BBC [1] and the Times [2].
It was leaked a few days ago that the government was planning to use triads to do the dirty work (See point 4 in [3] and [4] in Chinese). Using triads happened during the 2014 umbrella protest, but this time the attack on arbitrary citizens (not necessarily the protesters) is on a completely different scale: a terrorist attack.
And there are videos showing that the police “co-operated” with the triads (by turning a blind eye: arriving at the scene late [5] [6], chatting with the triad attackers [7], closing the police stations and not responding to cases during the events).
[1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49066982
[2]: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2c35b094-abe5-11e9-b657-1...
[3]: https://www.facebook.com/ChanKamShui/posts/2336638383089638
[4]: https://nextplus.nextmedia.com/article/2_682569_0
[5]: A video showing two policemen turning their back on the the subway station right before the attack: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cg0hm2/hkpf_leavi...
[6]: A video allegedly showed how the triad members (on the left) left the scene when the police (on the right) arrived at one scene: https://www.facebook.com/ChanKamShui/videos/477470036387268/
There's the more famous cases like that yellow vests self-proclaimed (and wrongly so) spokesperson who lost an eye to a rubber bullet. There's the old Zineb Redouane who was at home in Marseille when she was hit in the head by a tar gas can (thrown from a launcher, not by hand) and died accordingly.
But then, there's also the THOUSANDS of daily anonymous victims of state repression. Because those weapons, along with "sting-ball grenades", get deployed in day-to-day police operations (controlling popular neighborhoods, football matches, free parties).
In such hard times, all my thoughts go to the comrades in Hong Kong and their close ones who are going to face very hard times. Solidarity is stronger than any prison!
We know that from the United States too when Oakland police shot rubber bullets at protestors' heads. Per the manufacturer you're supposed to bounce them off the ground at someone, not shoot them directly at someone's head.
There is NO comparison to anything in a civilized western society
French and American history are filled with government-sponsored and industry-sponsored militias murdering workers on strike or angry protesters.
In the USA, take a look at the "goon squads" targeted at indigenous communities and their modern equivalent deployed at Standing Rock. Or the FBI's COINTELPRO and government-sanctioned murder of many militants from the Black Panther and other revolutionary organizations. Or the attack on the MOVE movement when police killed 11 people (including 5 children) and destroyed dozens of house from the neighborhood.
In mainland France, such actions are usually carried out by the state apparatus, not private militias because owning and carrying guns is mostly illegal (except for hunting, with a license). Still, when the establishment in France was threatened during May 68 protests, De Gaulle called his private counter-revolutionary militia (Services d'Action Civique) to the rescue ; these were founded by Jacques Foccart (the psychopath responsible for "african matters" for De Gaulle) in the context of the war against Algerian liberation (back in 1960).
Now, it's the time for me to acknowledge that some people face levels of generalized repression way worse than we do in France/USA/Hong Kong. I'm thinking of people tortured by security services (such as FSB) all around the world for "not thinking right" or just out of suspicion.
In the western world, you can speak your mind very openly as long as it does not threaten the exploitative system we live in, while in some countries like Morocco simply insulting the king will get you in prison.
Still, this very wild violence is the foundation of every capitalist society and western societies are not exempt from it, contrary to what you seemed to imply. It's just not the general rule in our day-to-day lives (at least in richer neighborhoods).
I'm not well versed in French police history, but there are plenty of examples of government brutality in the United States. This isn't whataboutism as, quite frankly, none of the violence justifies any of the other violence and what China is doing is an atrocious violation of basic human rights.
Off the top of my head:
Kent State — killing university students
MOVE bombing - bombing a residential neighborhood in Philly
Iran Contra Affair - CIA allegedly funded drug traffickers allegedly playing a large role in unleashing crack cocaine into American inner cities (wanna talk about violence against youth…)
1968 Democratic National Convention
Dakota Access Pipeline protests - protestors were tear gassed and sprayed with water in freezing temperatures
And of course Trump's concentration camps.
If your argument hinges on the government looking the other way while a private party perpetrates violence I'd start looking at the Homestead Strike, the Ford Massacre, any small town in the south where the KKK + police department venn diagram was basically just a single circle, and of course Blackwater's (of Betsy Devoss fame) Nisour Square Massacre.
What is happening in Hong Kong is, presumably, the government using outside groups as a proxy for violence. I've outlined a number of instances of the American government using disproportionate violence and using outside groups to perpetrate disproportionate violence. The one thing I forgot were the allegations that the FBI used Gregory Scarpa (a mob hitman) to extract information might seem closer for you.
If you look to the south, there are plenty of instances of the American government funding South American rebel groups (while not the mob, they were not professionals, and did perpetrate plenty of heinous crimes). I mentioned the Contras in the context of the CIA funding drug trafficking into the US (if you don't believe that resulted in an explosion of violence go check out the homicide stats for LA County in the 1990s), but the Contras were extraordinarily violent in their home of Nicaragua.
Of course nothing is ever exactly the same. I don't think that making a difference between professional and hobbyist thug is one worth making here. Beyond that I don't think that legal vs illegal is a worth making either. Do you think the PRC is going to sanction the triads (therefor declaring their behavior illegal)? I don't.
The Scarpa and Crack episodes were closer to that, but it still doesn't seem like the Pinkertons were the closest we came to this in the USA
I think those matters are separate. The ricochet technique is for when you have a rubber bullet or buck shell that is loaded too hot for the engagement distance. When engaging belligerents at short range, some very hot rubber buck (and I'm not sure about single-projectile bullets, but I'd believe it) should be deliberately ricocheted to reduce energy.
However, as far as I'm aware, a lot of riot control shot shells today have considerably lower muzzle velocity and/or projectile mass because they are designed for direct fire in these shorter distance engagements; so it's not always misuse when a less-lethal shot shell or bullet is used without deliberate ricochet, and firing directly should reduce the chance of stray/negligent/accidental hits to soft targets.
Though generally speaking, these measures in CCP-run Hong Kong are extremely brutal, the proper or improper use of rubber bullets is the least of the worries, as they aren't riots to begin with. The government is starting the fight.
https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cg0diu/triads_att...
The ideal goal is either turning Mainland to be more like their values or being cut loose into a "offically a part of China that we don't deliver mail to" like Taiwan. The Mainland could always go Tiananmen Square part 2 but it would do more damage to their relations, create martyrs, and lead to sanctions and boycotts value.
Support for independence is strong primarily among young people, so embracing the cause of independence would probably split the protest movement along generational lines. However, everybody knows that Hong Kong's special deal with mainland will expire after 2046 and it doesn't seem like anyone outside the independence movement really has a strategy to preserve democracy after that.
Universal sufferage has been trending as another talking point too among protesters. This would be very long term because if Hong Kong would allot all seats in the LegCo based on popular vote Beijing would almost certainly lose its ability to legislate this easily and hand pick the government.
I thought this was a sort of recapitulation of that. That still might be the case but I'm also starting to think this might be bad for the mainland Chinese government. They are fighting ideas about autonomy. The people in Hong Kong don't just want to sit back and make money - they want a say in how the world is run. They want power. That's the idea that's being fought against.
If it's China vs. Hong Kong then my money is on China. But what if that alienation between governed and government spreads from Hong Kong to other places in China? It seems unlikely but can the Chinese government respond to that?
There's that classic Churchill quote about Democracy (The worst but for all the others) and - if what I've described is accurate - this is one of the places Democracy shines because it's agile enough to concede power as a way of avoiding chaos. More autocratic systems tend to be a lot firmer - they concede nothing by their nature but the prices of firmness is brittleness. If they are finally forced to concede it comes in the form of shattering.
P.S. watching on Sway, thank you Drew.
That said I would welcome some statistics to clarify what the prevailing opinion is. (The turnout figures are impressive, but they can't say anything about what the rest of Hong Kong thinks.)