Comment by bobthepanda | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bobthepanda | Hacker News Reader

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This just codifies an existing California Supreme Court ruling and applies it to general employment status.

Explainer of the Supreme Court ruling: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonymarks/2018/05/29/the-califo...

> Under the newly adopted ‘ABC test,’ a worker is an independent contractor to whom a wage order does not apply only if the hiring entity establishes all of the following:

(A) that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hirer in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of such work and in fact;

(B) that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and

(C) that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed for the hiring entity.

A is debatable at best, given that make and model of car is heavily restricted, particularly for the 'UberBlack' service. https://www.uber.com/drive/new-york/get-started/eligible-veh...

If your contractor gets to dictate how you present yourself and how you do your job rather than just being happy with the end product, that looks a lot less like contracting as understood by laypeople.

What if you’re a clown and you show up in jeans and a button down with normal sized shoes and no makeup?

As far as I could imagine, most clown contracts don't actually specify the exact articles of clothing down to the UPC; anything that looks reasonable is permitted. Whereas Uber has a list of specifically permitted vehicles.

That's a distinction without a difference. There's only so many car models, what alternative would you suggest to a whitelist of acceptable cars for UberBlack?

Allowing the worker to choose their car. Quoting GGP:

> (A) that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hirer in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of such work and in fact;

Curious, what is GGP in this context?

I meant "great-grandparent", referring to your comment quoting the Supreme Court ruling, but I realize now that I miscounted and it's actually one level further than that :(

Great-grand-parent

There's only so many computers. Graphic designers deliver an end product regardless of this. The end result is all that matters. The business of Uber is conveying people from point a to point b safely. Their contractors should have the ability to use whatever vehicle safely conveys people from a to b. If they don't have a choice then they are employees not contractors.

The computer a graphic designer users has nothing to do with the end product. The vehicle you ride in has a huge impact on the experience. Sure, Uber could designate certain dimensions of car, certain features, fit and finish, whatever, but it's easier to have a whitelist and probably a lot more reliable.

You could discriminate based on the Blue Book value or some other agreed upon value for a car, combined with commonly agreed upon ratings for a car.

For example, under the current UberBlack rules for NYC, you couldn't drive a BMW 6 series, any Porsche, a Toyota Sequoia, a Nissan Armada, any Dodge, and this is just comparing cars listed on Blue Book with similar ratings and starting prices: https://www.kbb.com/car-finder/5/?pricerange=65000-max&inten...

If you need a whitelist because some of these cars under arbitrary rules won't meet your criteria even though they're comparable, that's less "contracting for the job" and more "specifying the terms of how you work."

When you ask for a plumber, you ask that they show up with tools, you don't tell them only Black&Decker, Craftsman, etc. are acceptable and any deviation from the list won't do. (I know nothing about tool brands and quality, this is just a hypothetical example.)

Not sure I follow, like a clown who was an independent contractor and accepted a gig from a company that booked clowns, a job they in turn got from someone who called the company asking for a clown?

A third category needs to exist. Uber drivers are in a gray area between W-2 employees and completely independent contractors. It turns out that's exactly the common-sense compromise Uber is lobbying for. Other countries (such as the UK) have this third category.

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