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Comment by supergauntlet | Hacker News Reader

> literally a supercar for 55k~.

Sorry but this isn't accurate at all. It's an electric muscle car. It goes fast in a straight line and that's it. It can't corner, it can't sustain the acceleration for long periods of time due to overheating (which is completely reasonable - it wasn't designed for that), it's heavy as hell. It's just really really good at flooring it from a standstill or low speed, cruising, and highway acceleration (50 mph to 90 mph).

This isn't a knock on any Tesla, but they're grand tourers at best. Certainly not a supercar. You can't compare these with something that can actually corner at all.

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This is a fully stock (even tires) Tesla Model 3P running Laguna Seca in 1:46.1 at the end of a long day of racing BMWs. Just for fun the driver wanted to take his Telsa out, and his boss is riding shotgun. [1]

The production EV record is held by a non-stock TM3P (upgraded suspension, brakes, and tires) at 1:37.5 [2].

By comparison, here are a list of Laguna Seca records [3].

[1] - https://youtu.be/_DZSMxrHyHo

[2] - https://youtu.be/D1MDCPk-7Yw

[3] - https://i.imgsafe.org/7d/7d96bea0ab.png

This is proving my point. Look at the lap times on Laguna.

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

Most of the stuff around the 1:45-1:47 mark is a hot hatch, a grand tourer, or a muscle car.

Seriously, you gotta understand, I'm super hyped for the electric GT series with the Model S to take off, but these are not supercars. They're comparable to an M series BMW or a nice muscle car, which is fine.

I’m not even disagreeing with you! “Supercar” is obviously a loaded term. I would never expect a fully stock $54k product to meet that label. IMO, if it’s not six figures it’s by definition excluded from even being considered in that group.

But 1:47 is with stock tires even. I don't know where you draw the line, if you are upgrading suspension parts and not just tires, rotors, and pads, but that’s still pretty basic kit to see 1:37, which does make it competitive with some supercars.

I’d like to see a time with TM3P just with racing tires, pads, and rotors, but stock suspension, if it can beat 1:40 on that chart.

By most accounts, the stock TM3P is ahead of the BMW M3 on the track, not just drag. It’s not a supercar, but it is the most super car you can get for $54k!

From the Motor Trend TM3P track test drive:

You'll kill me for saying it, but this sport sedan has the same toss and catch that makes the best front-drive hot hatches such a joy to hustle—bolstered by no-joke instant horsepower and the predictability of vectoring all-wheel drive.

Hot hatches aren't supercars!

The instant acceleration and drag strip performance means it's closer to something like a Dodge Demon than a Ferrari 488. That's OK, it's just not realistic to say it's something it's not.

I don't think it's a supercar. But it handles better than a muscle car and you can absolutely compare it to something "that can actually corner at all" by looking at the list you posted at Laguna Seca. It's about 10 seconds slower than an AMG GT, which is certainly a supercar. Plus, most drivers are not going to be capable of taking either the AMG nor the M3P to the limit, so admittedly it's sort of a moot point.

Rimac would be the supercar equivalent for EVs I guess

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