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The Big Scoop

theguardian.com

In Glasgow around the 1980's there was a series of gang battles, the fights were over the control of Ice cream vans and their distribution areas. It was known as the Ice Cream wars, it nearly killed off the Ice Cream van (there's still a few about in summer).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars?wprov...

I lived in the east end for about 8 years and a big point is that they also sold cigarettes which changes the target audience significantly. There was something creepy about the music of ice cream vans in winter..

That's incredible. There's a movie or computer game there.

Bill Forsyth's 1984 movie 'Comfort and Joy' is a comedy very loosely based on the Ice Cream Wars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_and_Joy_(1984_film)

NB I'd recommend his earlier movie "That Sinking Feeling" - at least if you like Glaswegian crime-based comedies...

> “Since Brexit, people have less money, and less confidence in spending money. They haven’t got the money in their pockets they had a few years ago.” (Eastbourne voted to leave the EU.)

England in a nutshell.

Most likely it's just complaining of old grumpy ice cream man in dying trade, I don't think there is any significant impact of Brexit in that area yet.

Although Roach’s products are keenly priced – £2 for a small cone with flake, up to £3 for a large

Our local ice cream van is ridiculously cheap: 50p for a kid's cone, £1 for a normal ice cream. But the local rumours are that he makes his real money with "side ventures" from the same van (if you've played GTA Vice City you'll get the idea).

Is that a common rumour for ice cream vans? I remember growing up there were the same things said about our local one.

It can be more than just a rumour:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars

Oh totally. Though in this case the source of the rumour gives me pause for thought. But the ice cream is amazingly cheap and good so that's all I care about :-D

ice cream vans (and hand car washes) carry modern slavery risks in the UK - this company still have an ice cream van parked every day next to the park near my house: https://thebristolcable.org/2019/05/ice-cream-boss-lopresti-...

Personally, I dislike them as they specifically target play parks, school gates and areas where children gather frequently, and often they leave their diesel motor running constantly next to these areas. I understand that they carry a sense of warm nostalgia for some (particularly the generation prior to my own, who grew up when ice cream vans were popular), but I see no sense in them myself.

>> I see no sense in them myself

Cool. Don't use them.

>> often they leave their diesel motor running

Seems a genuine concern. I suggest you voice your concerns to the operator whenever it happens. Escalate to authorities if it becomes a serious problem.

>> ice cream vans (and hand car washes) carry modern slavery risks in the UK

Not cool. Please don't denigrate an entire class of something you dislike using FUD. Even if it's true occasionally, it's certainly not true in general.

I didn’t say all ice cream vans or hand car washes are run by slaves.

I said that they carry modern slavery risks in our country at the moment. There is plenty of data to support the claim that hand car wash businesses carry this risk; there was recently an initiative to help identify known problem businesses with an app: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47829016

I recently found out that the ice cream van near us that I have used before is part of a network of vans all around my city that has been linked to modern slavery. It’s not an isolated incident in my part of the country.

I don’t think my statement in regard to the modern slavery risks denigrated the ice cream van industry. If I said ‘don’t use ice cream vans because they are all run by slave masters’ then I would have been tarring the whole industry with the same brush. But I didn’t say that.

What does it mean to "Carry modern slavery risks"? Do you mean "they employ slaves, e.g. the owner took their passports and controls them like slaves?"

> What does it mean to "Carry modern slavery risks"? Do you mean "they employ slaves, e.g. the owner took their passports and controls them like slaves?"

Human trafficking is a real thing. Coffeedoughnuts provided a link with a news story about an app that has been used to report businesses suspected of engaging in that industry.

Having the means to be reported and actually doing the crime are not causally related.

My proximity to your smoke machine does not prove that I am on fire.

I would argue that FUD does exactly what you claim to not be doing. Raising concerns without substantiation, against an entire class of trading. Rather than just specific instances of bad behaviour.

I would add that the linked article, which is about car washes not ice-cream vans is equally FUD-driven. Weasel words like "linked to", "concerns", "thought to be" are used frequently, but no hard evidence of slavery is presented.

Slavery is a crime in UK. If there have been successful prosecutions and those demonstrate prevalence, rather than sporadic occurrence in an industry, then your blanket aspersions might be justified.

Otherwise, please refrain. Such FUD is likely to needlessly harm the business of law-abiding traders.

Your points get our inner toddler angry but something has to be said.

Soon the vans will be banned due to emissions legislation. So no ice cream vans in London and no capital to buy a modern van.

Down by the river near me are a few vans, fairly stationary for six months. Every six minutes the diesel motor fires up to provide power for the fridge. The racket this makes can be heard half a mile away. So one man's marginal business selling empty calories ruins the peace and quiet of residents and people enjoying the riverside. If you are on the water, e.g. in a canoe, you can smell these things from a few hundred meters away, a pall of diesel fumes sits on the river.

The ice cream van in housing estates is not the only bit of community that has gone. Fizzy drinks were sold that way, newspapers, milk, bread and even insurance. All gone.

These services really are vital to community as the article states.

Much has changed though. People now have sizeable fridge freezers at home, until the 80's this was not universal with only a few having chest style freezers in the UK.

Hence it is no surprise that the ice cream van is no longer common. The people buying ice cream for their kids from vans are only doing so to re live their formative years.

Health also matters. There are no vitamins in an ice cream van. You are not buying quality. It is processed food at its worst. Some parents know this and deny their kids the early onset of heart disease.

>> At the Kingsmere estate, we sell three ice-creams and a slush puppy to 51-year-old reiki master Russell Dobson. “When they hear the noise,” Dobson says, gesturing to his son, “you tell them: ‘There’s none left.’” “You can’t do that!” Roach exclaims. “That’s what everyone tells them,” Dobson says. “Did you not know that?” (Later, at a playground, a girl of about five or six runs up to the van and asks if we’ve sold out. When Roach shakes his head, she looks confused, then enraged.)

I'd call that a man-in-the-middle attack. Is that too much abuse of terminology?

Ice cream vans are one of the many small business ideas that make me say "how on earth is that viable" and simultaneously "you're charging WHAT?!"

For me ice cream cans are just a nice luxury when you go outside. And in my western country they cost 2-3€, so nothing outrageous either.

> "Well, my business idea is to drive around in a van selling sweets to children..."

> "how on earth is that viable"

Visit a London park on a hot day and the queue for ice cream vans is amazing. Even though people could probably walk for <5 minutes and get something from a shop cheaper.

> "you're charging WHAT?!"

Yeah, last time I looked at one (couple of weeks ago), it was getting on for a 50% premium over the local corner shop (<5 minutes from the van!) which is already a 50% premium over a supermarket.

Soft serve ice cream is decidedly different to the regular ice cream you are likely to find in a shop.

Yeah, when you have an 80% margin on a $2 product, you're still just making $1.60 per sale. That's a lot of product to push to cover your fixed costs.

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