The Vietnam War Was Already Lost, but I Had to Go Anyway
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The masses are made to think fighting a war (soldier) for someone else (the president and the military industrial complex) is an honorable thing to do.
Because patriotism. Which is bullshit. We share this little blue ball in space with all of these people who scare us, whose ideals we ridicule. And people who love and live and dream like we do.
There is no honor in violence. Even less in oppression. Regardless of justification.
Vietnam might have been a boondoggle of a war. But it certainly better than had we folded and let the dominoes fall in many places where there was some discontent but not nearly as much as there would be with Soviet style governance.
Certainly there were smarter ways to wage the war, but short of taking over the corrupt local govt there wasn’t much else we could do. We suggested land redistribution and other forms of reform, as we implemented successfully in South Korea but the South Vietnamese wouldn't have it.
It’s also often not clear who is the good or bad guy. As far as i know in Vietnam for example the main goal was to get rid of the colonialists. If the west had accepted that maybe north Vietnam wouldn’t have aligned with the Soviets. In addition the west also aligned with highly corrupt leaders in the south. We see the same dynamic in the Middle East. Out of short term interests we ally with highly corrupt dictatorial governments there and then we are surprised that things blow up in our face.
Size is an implicit threat, one that can never be eliminated. How exactly do you propose to eliminate the implicit threat of one animal/group of animals simply being larger than another?
Knowing that that is the policy that is implemented, and that fights are always risky, whether a fight occurs will be determined by the reward size and the predictability of the outcome.
Or are you suggesting the North Vietnamese were a tool of the Chinese or Russians? In which case - like Robert McNamara - you would be told by the former foreign minister of Vietnam that you should read a history book[0], because you have no knowledge of the region's history.
The Vietnam war was a disgrace waged for no valid reasons, accomplishing nothing except ending the lives of millions of Vietnamese people. To defend it in this day, with all the benefit of hindsight, is utterly beyond the pale and should rightfully be compared to supporting other historical atrocities such as the genocide of Native Americans.
No war however done is good to have. Some wars are necessary and come with great loss. It’s unavoidable. There were many mistakes in Vietnam-the whole war, but it wasn’t pointless. The middle eastern wars we went into are pointless. Those are local conflicts and we should let them settle their own scores.
The Vietnam war was more than about Vietnam. Kennedy knew that.
Of course, if some random American comes up to them demanding their thoughts on the Vietnam war they might have a different answer.
You should consider re-examining your belief in domino theory.
Do you think the US was right to carpet-bomb Cambodia?
The US put that corrupt local government in power by the way.
Our military recruitment model targets people who are primarily just poor. Then we call them heroes and treat them like shit.
But by calling them heroes it implies they signed up for purposes like patriotism and honor. Not the reality that a lot of them are just shifted into it for lack of better options. It’s a grave disservice to soldiers to hide their struggles with bullshit praise.
There may well be heroism involved in military service, but it’s used as blinders to avoid the fact that we have screwed over vets for years ever since, idk, the bonus army; and fully intend to continue doing so.
One of my mates signed up and said that he enjoyed his 7 years but then it was time to get a job that paid a living wage.
Which is why the military and related orgs have such a hard time recruiting people experienced technical skills.
It’s not ok to claim that they’re there because of their values and to lie in saying that they’re a treasured part of the society.
I found this article which sort of suggested it, but the math didn’t match my intuition.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-recruit...
Obesity and intelligence are certainly problem factors, but I just don’t believe middle class millennials are the ones going to the military. I have to believe it’s still the poor who aren’t disqualified. Open to contradiction though.
I don't know how 10-year-old me found that poem, but I memorized it for a fifth-grade poetry recital. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori, indeed.
I fear the US political establishment learned the wrong lesson from Viet Nam. Avoiding the social costs (like the draft) to our current military engagements overseas has allowed the US to be indefinitely at war for 18 years.
Same with the current American wars. When they invaded Iraq in 2003 the military was understaffed and it took years for the leaders to admit that and adjust. So solders were dying while at the same time a lot of defense companies made good profits and there were tax cuts for higher incomes.
I always wonder how wars would go if as soon as a country was at war, leadership had to live in conditions like a front soldier and nobody would be allowed to make a profit from war related business. I bet we would have much less wars.
Selection incentives are a real beast.
We already have fMRI tech that can do some of that.
I know of Twilight Zone episodes to have used that. Specifically one I can think of is the Dachau Nazi "doctor" comes back to relive his glory days, and is forced by the ghosts who still live there to forcefully feel their pain for the rest of his life. It's supernatural, but still the same idea.
There were also episodes of Outer Limits that did similar, but with a machine that forced them to live with the crime they committed.
I believe Black Mirror also did some of this as well.
“The Golden rule is the one thing that all religions have in common.”
“Liberals just want to spread the misery around.”
“What we need is facts and logic, not emotion.”
“Liberty, equality, fraternity.”
“An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
I can’t tie this all up in a bow but there are some interesting themes and counter themes there. If I was a philosophy major I might be able to make more sense.
" Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our steel companies and our munitions makers and our ship-builders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted — to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get."
in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
Edit: corrected "general's number of stars"
“The problem after a war is with the victor. He thinks he has just proved that war and violence pay. Who will now teach him a lesson?”
Source: https://chomsky.info/196709__/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili...
The World Wars brought violence directly to the Asians and Europeans, devastating Europe from London to Moscow, and all over Asia. Rich and poor got it, good and hard, in their on backyards.
Vietnam devastated... Vietnam. It was an economic blackhole for the US -- ditto for Iraq and Afghanistan -- but the average American is driving larger, nicer cars then ever, while living in comfy McMansions. Northern Virginia and Southern Maryland (Washington DC suburbs) are wealthier than ever -- all Top 10 richest counties in the US. They don't feel this pain, and probably never will, save for the small handful of volunteers shipped to Iraq/Afgan/etc.
The effect of boredom on a large scale in history is often underestimated. It is the main cause of war, revolutions, electoral surprises, etc.