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Comment by gleapsite | Hacker News Reader

Certainly prevalent forms of argiculture are akin to surface mining. My property is surrounded on three sides by a rotated field (corn, wheat, soy etc) and there's a 12-18" drop along those edges of my property line, persumably as the soil was extracted in plant form.

However I believe there are forms of soil agriculture that aren't surface mining such as a short rotation coppice. The primary molecular structures being extracted are lignin and cellulose, which are comprised of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen (that is, water and air sources).

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>there's a 12-18" drop along those edges of my property line, persumably as the soil was extracted in plant form.

This presumption is incorrect. Do the math: 99+% of that mass loss is because of wind and water erosion, not plant growth.

Would his property not also experience the same erosion? I could see irrigation from the farming causing extra water erosion but wouldn't that ultimately be the same as when mining operations remove whatever minerals they consider waste?

The acceleration of erosion on farms is mainly caused by tillage (plowing), the building of fast farm drainage networks (vs infiltrating water to recharge aquifers), lack of trees to block surface-level winds (vs winrows), and heavy biocide application which kills the plant roots/fungal hyphae/bacterial aggregates that hold soil together.

>wouldn't that ultimately be the same as when mining operations remove whatever minerals they consider waste?

No because soil isn't waste, it's a valuable material.

No, because presumably his property has permanent plants with roots that retain the soil, while his neighbors are constantly tilling the land making it easily blown or washed away.

I don't see how this isn't analogous to mining still.

Coal mines clear cut mountains. A smaller portion of the mountain in the form of coal is kept and shipped. The other materials of the mountain are blown away as a side affect of the clear cutting operation.

Farmers harvest crops from their land. A smaller portion of the land in the form of crops is kept and shipped. The other materials of the land are blown away as a side affect of the farming operation.

Why are these functionality different other than one operation wants a mineral in the ground and one operation wants freshly harvested plants?

You don't actually have to till, you just make slightly more money in the short term by doing that.

It’s surface mining of topsoil. Topsoil takes years and years to form and once it’s gone, it’s gone forever. Soil has structure and it’s alive. Soil biome holds not just water but also air and nutrients and bacteria and mycelium and has its own eco system.

Someone told me that you can indeed create soil by composting..well..that’s still compost. Not soil. Compost spread and left undisturbed by tilling will help soil regenerate. Instead ..we create fluffy soil by tilling and then we add amendments( and chemicals and toxic weed killers)..all life in the soil is ripped and tilled and eroded away as the structure of soil is gone...it is death..instead of acting as a carbon sink, we have changed soil by growing food and releasing more carbon into the atmosphere. Tillage farming is the most destructive thing we have ever done to this planet. And then it became fossil fuel dependent. The food we eat to live is what’s going to kill us. Farming... It’s literally going to kill us. It’s an open air factory... surface mining operation..it’s not ‘natural’. We are better off moving 50% of annuals grown for food to indoor farming like hydroponics and aquaponics... And stick to growing grains and perennials and trees and nuts etc outdoors which can be bought back into the fold of regenerative Ag. Tomatoes? Better indoors. Strawberries? Better indoors. Lettuce? Oh good grief! Certainly better indoors. So much to do.especially as tech breakthroughs..first amongst them is energy. New forms of capturing energy to mKe indoor farming sustainable. Nutrient management and disposal. Maybe more organic ways to formulate indoor Ag nutrients. Etc etc. but mostly not being reliant on dirty electricity and on the power grid for indoor energy needs. That bothers me the most.

I agree. But industrial fossil fuel based global Ag is brutal on the soil..top soil once gone will take years and years to form..if at all it does ..

I wonder how much of that is your land gaining dirt, building up from the wind erosion around you.

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