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Comment by super-serial | Hacker News Reader

I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders.

When watching Andrew Yang's Presidential pitch for UBI he said most government retraining programs only have a success rate of 17%.

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My job takes me to many Amazon FCs. The job families that we currently offer through career development classes are usually things like CDL, operations management, dentistry, EMT, process engineering, mechanical tech, etc. It is really a grab bag of what is most highly requested by the diverse working cohort at each FC.

Code as HN would think of it is not as common, but associates becoming IT or facilities technicians or engineers(remember, these things are teeming with robotics and conveyor systems) is highly common.

I’m glad that we are spending more on this.

> dentistry

can you add some detail here? Are the career development classes intended to prepare people for life outside Amazon? Or does Amazon have company dentists?

There is a shortage of dental hygenists in the Seattle area right now....

Perhaps too many small dental practices though (or there is a massively underserved need? There seems to be a new dental practice every week in Seattle...).

I've complained numerous times at my FC that none of the career programs are actually careers, and that none of the degree programs offer anything higher than an associates degree. FC employees with any technical expertise and a desire to retrain somewhere in the Amazon network beyond the FC system seem to be SOL. Of course, the situation might differ between facilities.

And I work at a FC near the second biggest tech hub in the US... it would be easy pickings for Amazon (pun intended) but it seems like no dice. But if I want a second associates' degree and to restart my career as a truck driver or paralegal at 40, I can do that.

17% strikes me as not bad. Not great, but not awful. People who take jobs that are at eminent risk of automation probably weren't exceptionally diligent in school the first time around. Add in the burdens of adulthood (parenting, bills, etc) and the odds of staying in a retraining program seem bleak.

Does anyone have a better success rate?

17% sounds good to me. I did co-op at Elections Ontario and the place is just chock full of barely employable people who resist change to the status quo.

You poor bastard. I worked for the federal government too.

I remember being told that working for the government for more than a few years would make me unemployable in the private sector. The idea was one's work ethic would be irremediably damaged. I thought that was foolish at the start of my time there, but a year later I had a new respect for the heuristic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20419574

There are a bunch of different programs targeting different cohorts. Associate2Tech and AmazonCareer choice are targeting the fulfillment center workers.

ATA is incredibly successful at small scale. Biggest challenge is scaling it up + making it work for everyone. If you are familiar with amazon's think big and pr faqs, educated guesses can be made as to the end vision for that program.

The NYT article is actually pretty poor compared to https://www.geekwire.com/2019/amazon-spend-700m-retrain-100k... or https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-det... because it misses the apprenticeship which is by far the most interesting program amazon is running since it's targeting the veterans.

Actually, he says it's 0-15 percent, which I've always assumed is just the granularity of the study to which he refers.

Alternatively, since those retraining programs were focused on specific industries or occupations in manufacturing in specific regions, maybe it's the range of results in those occupations/regions.

Never heard him say specifically 17 percent (and I have pretty much watched everything Andrew Yang related ;)

Amazon doesn't care about the success rate. They just need positive spin they can point to for any layoffs. "See, we had these retraining programs in place for our recently redundant workers."

> I wonder what the success rate is for their retraining program to turn factory workers into coders.

Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at risk of losing their jobs to automation.

This is a feel-good announcement that will likely do little good without other management changes that Amazon is probably loathe to make.

1. Is it really too much to believe that someone with a physically demanding job might be in good enough condition to do something else after work? I'm pretty sure folks in all sorts of physical jobs have physical hobbies as well. You never hear this sort of excuse about carpenters.

2. It's hard to work full time and go to school after. It's by definition going above and beyond.

"Excuse"? You think people are being too lenient about the warehouse workers? Those jobs are awful, and it's not about simply being a physical job. I would much rather do carpentry.

There are a lot of awful jobs. Roofer in Phoenix in the summer, for example.

No, I don't think people are being too lenient -- it's a bit more subtle than that. There are many physically demanding jobs, some as much or more so than warehouse worker. I was questioning why we never see people say people in those job families couldn't possibly study after a day at work.

What you want to do is also irrelevant, as you might have an enjoyment of carpentry. Me, I hate it, and would rather be a warehouse worker.

Amazon warehouse jobs aren't just physically demanding. I agree that one can study hard after half a day spent on some physical effort. Instead the problem is that Amazon pickers are under constant stress all those hours to meet targets far more demanding than most other jobs. I would expect that constant mental stress to leave people so frazzled at day's end that they would be unable to hit the books and concentrate.

> far more demanding than most other jobs

And you've just made my point for me. "Most" other jobs. It's not the most difficult, most physical, most dangerous. Where are the people saying people in job "X" can't possibly study after a day at work? Somehow, that reasoning is confined to warehouse workers.

I worked harvest and was a janitor in college and still had energy to study. I had no time to do anything else but it was strangely “easy” at the time because I had no distractions.

Fair enough, but not all people have that experience. Things often get harder as you age.

Sadly, some people make poor decisions when they are young and course correcting gets harder the older one gets.

Youth helped me for sure but I did it later in life than most people.

I was motivated because I believed my effort would pay off. That may be easier without the experience of age but I don’t think anyone is excluded from that possibility.

I have a brother in law going through this process. Having young kids seems to be enough motivation to work more after brutal overnight shifts. He recently immigrated to the US.

>Probably about 0% for their warehouse workers: they're so exhausted by the end of their shifts that they won't have the energy to learn, and their most at risk of losing their jobs to automation.

I work at one of those warehouses and people do try to put in the effort to learn - unfortunately, Amazon only offers Associates' Degree level education and (judging from public complaints) all but forces people to work night shifts and extra hours to keep their numbers up, and doesn't actually teach the classes well, because of course their first, primary and overriding interest is in having their warehouse employees meet their quotas and fulfill business needs.

Which is why I recently just suggested that people just take Udemy courses and stay away from Amazon's offers altogether.

i wonder if its cheaper to retrain vs outsourcing

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