Comment by quanticle | Hacker News Reader

Comment by quanticle | Hacker News Reader

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That reinforces the article's point. Having a car as a rental allows you to see its UI foibles without the blinders that inevitably come down when people are forced to adapt to some problem over a long period of time. And like the OP says, the UI of most modern cars is horrendously bad. For example, my personal car is a 2019 Subaru Legacy. I rather like it. But there's no way to make it start with the stereo off. If the car is on, the stereo is on. The only way to turn the audio off is to twist the volume knob all the way down to zero before you turn off the car.

When I first had the car, I found this to be totally ridiculous. Whoever heard of a car that automatically turns on the radio when it starts? But, after having had the car for a month, the problem is already fading, as I've developed a habit of turning the volume down before I turn off the car. At this rate, six months from now, like you, I'll be defending this anti-feature. (Hey, you're going to turn the radio on anyway when you drive, so why not have the car do it for you on startup?)

I agree that the key word is rental, but my conclusion is exactly the opposite of yours. The fact that this is an unfamiliar rental is what is allowing the OP to see the issues with the car's UX clearly. If the car were his daily driver, he'd have adapted to it, and he wouldn't notice himself getting distracted.

[1]: https://www.subaruxvforum.com/forum/interior-audio-hvac/1460...

I must say, I'm a little confused re the radio- hasn't that been the default UX for car audio for as long as cars have had radios? Even old AM only radios would come on when the ignition was turned on, and would retain the volume & station from the last time the car was used. I don't think I have ever driven a vehicle that defaulted the radio off when starting, they all retain the setting that was last used.

If the radio was on, then it would come on the next time the car was started. If the radio was off, it would remain off until you turned it on. In the Subaru, the radio comes on regardless of its state when the car was shut off.

In every other car I've owned, if I press the volume knob to turn off the radio, the radio stays off. The next time I start the car, I have to press the volume knob again to turn the radio back on. In the Subaru, the radio turns on and starts playing when I start the car, even if I specifically pressed the volume knob to turn it off before turning off the car last time.

I encourage you to go try this in your (presumably non-Subaru) car. Start the car. Turn on the radio. Turn off the radio. Shut off the car. Start the car again. Is the radio playing audio or not?

Oh wow, so it is always on... what would possess someone to think that was in any way a useful feature? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess the volume defaults to 50%, which if the FM station is playing an advert with the gain maxed would be loud enough to be painful.

This might be a safety feature that needs to be turned off.

Oh, I feel for you, radio behavior is such a long standing feature that has been ingrained in minds of more than one generation of drivers. Strange choice from Subaru. I looked it up, it seems that the problem was also present on Outbacks, fixed in update for 2018 model.

As for the freshness of a renter's UX observations, personally, I'd find it less reliable due to different objective vs. a future owner. I would dismiss a lot of seeming inefficiencies of design just due to my unfamiliarity with vendor 'concept' and would kludge it for the short duration of the rental.

On the other hand, if shopping for a new car, test-driving one, my mindset would be a lot more critical.

I remember, at one time having to pull over the highway just to figure out, where was the headlights switch on the fine Dodge Charger. Used to Japanese cars, I would not expect it to be off the steering wheel stalks, but as a knob near the door. Turns out, it's another 'concept'.

Another example is the hand-brake pedal (!). Makes sense in a way. That one entered my memory bank via a nice Toyota Prius, at 4 in the morning, starting my the way to the airport from the darkness of parking lot. Previous share driver left it engaged, manifested itself with a dash warning and very squeeeeky and slow drive.... Luckily, there was a user manual in the car.

After seeing your comment, I dug into my Subaru Legacy's menus and found the option to force-check for a software update. Alas, there was none to be had. I think the next step is to e-mail the dealership and get them to lobby Subaru of America to port the fix to my model.

Same "feature" with the radio in my Peugeot. How can anyone design something like that?

> But there's no way to make it start with the stereo off. If the car is on, the stereo is on. The only way to turn the audio off is to twist the volume knob all the way down to zero before you turn off the car.

I have a 2016 Hyundai Tucson with a similar, but slightly different feature.

Turning the volume all the way down before switching off the engine does not effect the startup volume. When the engine starts, the radio comes back on at a preset, but reasonable, volume.

However, if I turn the entire screen off, by pushing the volume knob in until it clicks, before stopping the engine, then on start-up the radio will be off, but so will the entire screen, which also controls navigation, bluetooth connectivity and the reversing camera.

My first action after starting my car is 90% of the time to turn the volume down on the radio.

However, I must say that's really the only niggle I have with the Tucson. Everything else I'm pretty pleased with. While it does have a touch screen, I hardly use it, as everything can be controlled with tactile knobs and buttons. The touchscreen is used most when stationary and inputting a new destination address for navigation.

However, if I turn the entire screen off, by pushing the volume knob in until it clicks, before stopping the engine, then on start-up the radio will be off, but so will the entire screen, which also controls navigation, bluetooth connectivity and the reversing camera.

My Subaru has the same behavior, minus the backup camera remaining off. In reverse, the screen turns on and displays the image from the backup camera. It turns off again once you switch into drive. It's certainly a solution to the problem I described, but it's obviously not ideal for all the reasons you've enumerated. Turning off Bluetooth, navigation, and (in my case) Android Auto is certainly a drastic way of dealing with this radio behavior.

By outsourcing to the lowest bidder and then putting the thumbscrews on to push the price down even more. Everything in these cheap mass market cars is made as cheaply (and thus half-assedly) as humanly possible.

I mean, the real issue is that it starts at some preset volume that's almost invariably too high. if turned on at something more reasonable I'd get less annoyed by it

Does the Subaru have any beeping misfeatures other than the radio thing? Our Civic FK/FH is quite considerate about beeping, it only beeps twice like a bell if you don't have your seatbelt on and then shows a red pictogram on the dashboard, unlike Toyotas and Peugeot which are very annoying, or VW which beeps like a bomb is about to go off for virtually any dashboard notification deemed important by the manufacturer, like when your windscreen wiping fluid is low.

The Subaru beeps insistently if you don't have your seatbelt on. Other than that, it only beeps if you have the adaptive cruise control system enabled and you start to drift out of your lane.

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