Ask HN: Have you ever had an existential crisis?
How did you handle it?
They faded away as I approached 30, which was also about the time when my life started to have more of a solid dimension – an end, far away, but not infinitely. Suddenly a dozen different things I wanted to do turned into realizations that each one would take several years and they wouldn't all fit, not a depressing thought but a focusing one.
Why am I here? It doesn't really matter, mu, the question is wrong. The question supposes an answer is there and it isn't. Purpose is all made up, pick one if you want one or don't. Zoom way in or way out and nothing could possibly care about the mundane details about what I have for lunch or the history of my civilization. Unless you're doing it for its own purposes fumbling around for meaning isn't a very high quality activity. You should probably do it for a while from time to time, but hanging it up as a dependency for everything else – well nothing comes of it.
Strong certainty of purpose always comes off to me as a little bit (or a lot) of insanity.
How did I handle it? By spending a lot of really unproductive (or perhaps very productive) time doing nothing interspersed with a bit of active fumbling for meaning often by seeking out sources. The result is more or less "meh" which came with time.
I bet I'm due for a big one in five or ten years, but that me will be a different person.
> battled with the knowledge that life has no intrinsic meaning
Yes, it doesn't. But we can choose our own adventure, create our own meaning. I organize a summer camp for ~50 people. Is there any objective value to it? No - we'll all die and no one will remember. But I derive plenty of subjective value, as do the other participants. Is it worth it to do this? Objectively, no. For me subjectively, yes.
Have you read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl?
By ill-posed I simply mean it assumes something under the hood. Like when someone says "how do you catch X criminals" without first establishing that X is a crime. It's kind of a trick of language.
I do not like your parallel. The question about the meaning of life can also have the answer "there is no". It does not assume anything under the hood.
Meaning to me for example is conquering my existential problems (anxiety, depression), pushing past boundaries and percieved limits in life, seeking love and obtaining goals. These examples provide substantial meaning for me, where I'm currently at in this point of time. So meaning to some degree are what you value, subjectively speaking.
Just ask yourself - what does it mean that the "meaning" of X is Y? In the "meaning" sense that this thread is about.
The very fact that anything is happening, that there's something rather than nothing can be all absorbing. The "meaning" as people usually put it is typically a case of mis-wanting, trying to fit the reality to the language of thought, rather than the other way around, and a lack of focus on the present. In particular the religious concepts of heaven and hell are the most prominent members of this category (throughout the written history, and perhaps much earlier).
Maybe try sincere, old fashioned religion. It works for many. I believe there is something to it. (And done properly, it leads to helping others.)
I gave up on any notions of mysticism - religion, higher meaning and all that and instead just accepted causality is all there is. Things happen because they're the only logical thing that could happen given the conditions. Think of it as taking Markov to a broader sense.
You know what's so great about that, that relieves me so much? That there's no plan for me. No one is going to fix my issues, no one but myself. So I found comfort in having agency over my own circumstances. And I slowly started to fix whatever made me unhappy.
The stuff you mentioned will bring you down for sure. Start attending to them and life will slowly get really awesome. No silver bullet of course, there are ups and downs but it feels so much better. And get help if you have to!
So why live? In my case, I examined my options. Purposely dying (including taking extreme risk while mountain climbing, etc) is not an option for now, because it would cause intense suffering for a few people I love. So I have to live on. I don't want to fake exaltation and fill my life with extraordinary activities. It's now hard to find pleasure in novelty: after reading thousands of novels, surprising books are seldom, and the same law applies to music, and most activities, including human interactions. Sometimes I'm just waiting for time to pass. But there's still a bit of feelings and pleasure to be found in the daily blunt life.
You're a narcissistic ignorant. Lift your head up a little and see the world you dumb idiot. Look at the people dying of hunger all over the world and you're sitting here telling us that you have read thousands of books and now everything is saturated for you instead of celebrating the privileges you have.
I hope you live up to 100 and your time passes as slowly as possible because looks like that is the worst possible TORTURE somebody can wish for you.
I realize you were probably trying to help someone by giving them a good kick, but that doesn't work on internet forums and breaks the guidelines even if your intent was good. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
To me, the process was the following:
1. Realizing that society has created many layers of "fabricated" meaning (thinking of things like a successful career, owning a big house, an expensive car, being the best player in the soccer team, etc). I think those will quickly feel superfluous and the fact they are fabricated becomes apparent. They are in fact meaningless.
2. Understand that behind all that fantasy, we're still rather simple (social) animals. And coming to terms with that, helped me find meaning in basic things I'm hard-wired to enjoy: like nurturing the relationships with the ones I love, challenging myself in some sort of dimension (eg. sports, learning), being a positive influence for the younger generation, etc.
All in all, I think that questions makes you cut-through the bullshit society has fabricated over the years and go back to the core of what exactly makes you feel well. What makes you feel well, even if it's hard, is what you're supposed to do IMO.
Sounds like a good life. I've seen nihilists who are equanimous (like you appear), and ones who seem rather depressed. I can see how nihilism can lead to either of these outcomes, and wonder what the differentiating factor is.
I don't know why it happens man, it occurred to me whenever I was faced with a deep-rooted issue, an issue that got me exhausted or worried. For example, one of my colleagues, a new hire, died in an accident 4 days into his new job. It got me thinking why do we even exist, why do we die, why were we sent here?
Or when I was bored of life or was so indulged in work that I thought fuck this shit, what am I doing? Why do I even exist? What's the goal? What will happen once we die and get alive again? Even if I do exist, what's the purpose?
How did/do I handle with it? Spirituality helps, you pray to God (I'm a Muslim), then you move on. What helps is that most of us are in that crisis so you tell yourself, "Oh, alright. I'm not alone. Guess I just need to drag myself through life.". You get depressed, you get worried, you get panic attacks sometimes, you cry, you have trouble sleeping. But then... then you just wake up and you get some happiness, and then you move on. You just drag yourself.
To conclude, I find it weird how I've struggled to put my thoughts into words because I usually am able to explain myself properly. So I don't know? Just keep moving I guess... Sorry I don't think I helped.
> I'm a Muslim
I always thought the most attractive thing about religions was that they resolve exactly these questions. Guess it's not so simple.
If someone's at a bridge, and phones up the number on the sign for a suicide hotline they'll say something like "I'm going to jump off". The wrong response to this is "Don't do it" or give reasons why it's a bad idea. The correct response is "Why?"
It's taken me a long time to end up with a friend who's matured enough to take themselves out of the situation, so that when I phone them up they'll listen and not give me advice and tell me what to/not to do. If the conversation progresses enough, or I ask for advice then my friend might give some as advice does have its place. The trick is knowing where that is.
This is of course what a (good) therapist is trained to do, so if you feel there's no-one you can phone up it's an option to explore.
The psychological concept of resilience[0] may also be something that's worth exploring, if you want to understand how people cope with bad situations.
I've found meditation to be helpful - but it can be both uplifting and pull me back in. Being in the present can get you to appreciate the fact that you are even living (positive), but that recognition of life's ephemeral nature and it's complete insignificance in the cosmic landscape of the universe can drag you right back down (negative).
So long story short: acceptance is helpful. I haven't totally gotten there but it can alleviate the crisis symptoms. In fact I'm currently reading "Radical Acceptance" right now as a means of dealing with this and other issues.
Hearing about that rekindled those ideas in me as well. I didn't really deal with it, but I realised that I was still capable of enjoying things in the moment. Hence, my current strategy is: enjoy life while I can, because fear of existential dread is only likely to make it happen sooner.
I wouldn't be surprised if I'd get sucked into a depression sooner or later, but who knows, it might never happen.
In the newest Indie Hackers podcast [1], founder Aline Learner mentioned that starting a business helps with existential crises because you're so busy worrying about everything else. I'm looking forward to finding out if this holds true to myself in September.
[1]: https://www.indiehackers.com/podcast/099-aline-lerner-of-int...
Sure, but putting the burden of existence on another human to alleviate one‘s existential pain doesn‘t make the problem go away, it only puts it on others that had no say in their own creation. Overall it increases the amount of suffering (unless we‘re talking about adoption in the case of the child, too).
Also, not sure if this counts - recently I've been having a feeling that I no more like programming. The reason: I have a different mindset than the vast majority of programmers I met. It feels like either I'm the only one who knows how to do it well, or I'm the only one who doesn't know that. This feeling I've not yet overcome. I will probably try to change the job OR look for a different project / team.
He was saying people tend to fall into the trap of thinking that in a million years none of this is going to matter and that they're just one of seven billion people, so they don't really matter etc. Then he said now imagine your 6 year old daughter gets cancer... what do you tell her? That in a million years it isn't going to matter? That she's only 1 of seven billion people, so who cares? And if it's not the answer at a time like that then it's probably not the answer.
I dunno... but it struck a chord with me and I've not been able to entertain the nihilistic perspective ever since. Now whenever I find those thoughts coming on and think why on earth do I push so hard or why do I bother with what I do etc... I take on a more cosmic perspective. That through our actions and experiences the universe is able to observe, enjoy and comprehend itself. The point is to be the matter and the energy. The point is to be the experience.
Like why do you sit down and watch a movie when you know it's going to end?
If by definition "Why am I here? What is purpose?", then yes.
I've spent a lot of time "soul searching" by asking myself questions, and also similarly asked people the same questions as well to try to learn from them.
I tried to by systematic and log all my efforts too.
I put together https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/ as a means to better understand myself and why I do what I do. Being able to look at past answers has been super helpful in understanding my behavior
Maybe some of these keywords may help you. Take the time to answer some of the questions yourself (on paper, in your own notebook/journal)
https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/purpose/
https://www.deepthoughtapp.com/en/keywords/existential/
So you can remind yourself that in hour mind it always seems that "why" matters a lot, but facts matter more than models and models can always be improved. "why"s are supposed to be a friend to guide us, but if they created problems, just be skeptic from and reevaluate the value of question itself.
If your crisis is a "what" crisis rather than "why". It is often easier to cope with, as you only need to open up yourself and remind that all "what" questions are just nomenclature build on immature social/scientific models and never complete. Every "what" question can be altered by a different definition.
People often relate existential crisis with nihilist view, but my opinion is that they are not nihilist enough to think through that the existential questions are meaningless or of low priority themselves.
[edit] typo
For me personally, it's usually a passing feeling, but once every few years it grows into a multi-day/week long feeling that borders on depression.
Why do I have to work? What am I toiling for? When I die, who cares? Everyone who's died before me - who cares? Those who lived a good, lucky life vs had a terrible one under oppression/torture, why did I get this one? What does it matter?
At these points, I tend to take a hard look at life and ask myself "What do I want?" and "What is making me feel this way?"
Sometimes I come up with an answer for the 2nd, mostly it's just empty noise (it's existential, so that's kind of expected). So the driving question for me becomes, what do I want?
Thanks for writing this down. Knowing that other people go through the same stuff, helps a lot.
Like really why would you expect it to have any meaning at all? That is pretty grandiose. We're just (unprecedentedly) sophisticated naked apes.
The first time I had a feeling that once it's over, it's really game over and.. that's it. Very unsettling, cold, indifferent. Who'd care about some carbon remains on some big stone orbiting somewhere in the galaxy? Nobody, no one, and it doesn't mean anything.
I was 6 years old. I remember where I was, who was in the room, what were they wearing - it's all etched in my memory. That's one of the strongest feelings I've felt.
From time to time, I think about this topic and it's still difficult to accept that we are finite. But, we are and it is what it is. We didn't choose this world; we are here, might as well make the best of it.
Lack of meaning can be a good thing. Realising we're not here to do anyhting great. I'm not going to make anything of significance change. If I dissappear it wont really mater.... ok, that good, now I can get along with my life and not worry about societatal / parental / career etc pressures and follow my path beacuse in the same way I dont matter, your view of me doesnt matter. I am just here and will be treated based on what I put into the world and there is no great plan so get what you can from the journey.
Also this : https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-fiv...
My reasoning is that a crisis is generated by an unpleasant situation that may be difficult to identify, thus the feeling of powerlessness. By looking for what you want - or don't - out of life, and in an ideal situation (in front of death, a very personal thing where you don't have to deal with habits, job, or any external pressure), you can identify the elements in your life that suit you or don't, and act on it.
If there is a meaning of life, we did not find it yet. Therefore it must be beyond our current scientific knowledge. Now, science becomes the new meaning, because it may give us the original meaning. Therefore I devote my life to science. (It is not necessary to be a scientist. Any possibility to help science counts for me.)
If there is no meaning at all, then I personally do not understand why people would continue struggle in life. I just cannot accept such situation. I would rather search for the meaning.
I am old and confident in my skills as a developer. Many of my peers are young and utterly lack the confidence I take for granted.
Part of being confident (different than arrogant), and old, is that you have a kind of honesty about your capabilities and the technologies in which you work from experience solving certain problems. You know what is easily capable and what isn't. You know what is necessary and what isn't. You don't need tools, frameworks, gimmicks, or black magic to write your code for you. In many cases you would rather just write an original solution for a given problem because there is a very good change it will be less code, execute faster, and takes less time than dicking around with a bunch of dependencies and their configurations.
Another part of getting old is a loss of sensitivity. Either you have moved passed hard problems and grown callous to things that are no longer challenging or your career is stuck stagnating. Let's call that battle scars. This doesn't mean empathy is gone, but it does mean you have lost patience for people who either don't try or make everything an emotional event.
I found the culminating collision between old confident developers versus less confident, possibly more sensitive, developers boils down to RTFC (Read The Fucking Code). Here are some frustrating scenarios:
* A developer is particular about code style and so they don't RTFC and then misunderstandings occur.
* A developer is intimidated when a file contains greater than X lines of code and so they don't RTFC and misunderstandings occur.
* A developer refuses to do work without a certain API, framework, or tool and so they refuse to RTFC causing defects to slip into production.
* A developer doesn't know what they are doing and make an incomplete attempt to RTFC but refuses to ask questions in order to achieve clarity.
* A developer doesn't know what they are doing and finds a piece of code challenging so instead of RTFC they blame everything else, such as coworkers or the programming language, on their failures.
* A developer is largely code illiterate and so they pretend to RTFC and then lie about their assessment.
This is an existential crisis for me, because I am tired of dicking around with dishonest insecure people whose only professional goal is to achieve easiness (not simplicity). I have a fancy job at one of the largest and most profitable public companies in the US and I am in the process of giving this up and relocating for a change of pace.
When people don't handle crisis well, it's usually a sign they aren't able to switch focus to something else because they don't have something/anything to switch focus too.
At work? Yes. How did I handle it? I quit.
Now I just get foggy and easily irritated.
When I was younger the way I experienced low blood sugar from neglecting to eat was a lot more interesting.
For me, the reason was that I wasn't sure if I was heading in the right direction, spending money and time on education. But I realized that is is kind of unnecessary and as long as I enjoy what I do and can continue to do it without any damage to my future possibilities I should probably continue. You can always switch tracks later in life, no harm done.
Emotions are rarely logical, they are often very irrational and sudden. If you put aside the emotions for a while and ask yourself if it's really worth it to be upset, the answer is probably going to be no.