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The only question to answer is, “are you happy?” I’m almost 50, I don’t have a high profile job, failed at getting into Google 5 times, but just bought my wife a $20,000 grand piano for our anniversary without thinking about it. My kids make me happy, my house mortgage is less than 1X my household earnings, my work pays well and I have a great Work Life Balance.

We all die within 120 years, and if we are cremated, there will be no trace of us left in this universe. Who cares about anything except our happiness and our ability to make those around us happy during this short time we are alive?

As someone who wants to be financially independent, how did you make so much such that household income > mortgage? Do u just live in a crappy neighborhood? Even on Midwest states tech yearly salary is about half of a decent house?

He’s had 20-30 years to make mortgage payments.

And has not paid off the mortgage.

No we haven’t. Our decision is to pay off the mortgage as slowly as possible. The interest rate on the mortgage is 3.5% so if inflation rises significantly, we will be paying negative real interest rates for much of the duration of the mortgage.

Historically inflation is approximately 3% on average, also, re-financing your mortgage could be very advantageous for you, the lowest rates you can find right now hover around 1.7%.

Basically we got lucky. We bought our house 7 years ago, just before the housing bubble went crazy again. I live in the SF Bay Area to be honest we almost gave up and went back to renting but managed to find a house just before we gave up.

My wife makes 50% more than me, but we bought a house that we could afford on one salary. It’s in a nice neighborhood but not super fancy. It’s the house I plan on dying in. We have lived well below our means and was able to save a good down payment that helped. Not living above your means and maintaining a standard of living well below that is the most important thing, in my opinion. Not having worked for FANG (not being able to get in because I’m not good enough to pass the interviews) and not being able to amass great wealth from stocks, basically it’s been from saving.

My wife is more successful than I am, but I stunted my career to take more of the child rearing. That said my career isn’t terrible, I make a good salary but I turn off my phone at 3pm every day. My calendar automatically rejects all meeting requests after 230pm and I pick up the kids and spend more time with them to give my wife the opportunity to further her career.

Man, these earnest wealth brags are really annoying here. There's was no reason to mention the piano, but you did.

He mentioned it because it shows that while he hasn’t been in the rat race he’s done well enough to treat his family well. I’m happy for him, and honestly 20k isn’t that much money in the big scheme of things so he probably didn’t think of it as a brag

>and honestly 20k isn’t that much money in the big scheme of things so he probably didn’t think of it as a brag

lol are you bragging in the same exact way? 20k isn't much money in the big scheme? 20k is median more than people in 136 countries have

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...

Most people here live in the first world...

I think the point is even if you don't work for google you can afford the piano.

Sounds like the kind of advice I'll like to give my 38 year old self when I'm 50. Thanks for sharing your perspective :)

It’s off-topic, but such a great question you asked. My view is that its “horses for courses”as they say in the UK. Some people will optimize for high income because that’s what makes them happy - and may be helped by a predisposition for high focus. Other people will optimize for a life in which they cultivate many interests because that makes them happier than staying focused and earning a lot of money.

For what it’s worth, I started out in a high focus, high income career (law) but quickly realized the level of focus required left me feeling a little bored with life. So I reworked things, did a masters in environmental economics and now have what I’d call a portfolio career in which I can do a variety of things, allows me to travel a little and satisfies the curiosity itch. Which if unscratched - I realise - makes me feel unhappy. However, this does give rise to an inner tension. I live in a culture which associates money with status. I’m not rich like my old law school friends, and I feel lower status for that. Because I am (probably like most people) not unaware of status, I get some negative cognitive feedback from my choices, but on balance feel it’s better for me that I pursue a diverse livelihood than get rich and bored.

Glad you said that.

It’s so important and requires modesty to acknowledge ‘negative cognitive feedback’ or doubts to put it more directly.

Doesn’t mean you are on the wrong path but don’t silence that little voice. Let it have its say.

I like the concept of a "portfolio career". For better or worse, however, one of the things I want to achieve is to be financially independent... and that seems to be somewhat at odds with this kind of varied profile.

That’s what I mean: horses for courses. But it also depends on what you mean by “financial independence”. It seems obvious to say that I’ve found that outgoings are as bigger a determinant of independence as income. Oh, and I married a partner who sees status as a function of freedom more than money. And that helps a lot.

To add to that, an old friend married someone who’s main priority in life is to own a brownstone in Brooklyn. And their expectation engenders a fairly high degree of marital tension. The partner comes from a background in which, I’d guess, you show status by owning expensive property. And that’s a high barrier to happiness because earning that sort of money is not easy unless you’re willing to trade off a lot of your time.

As someone who has been very laser focused in life I often feel the opposite of you. I finished university, did my PhD, and now have a job doing research in the area of my PhD. I've been working 60-80 hour weeks for the past 10 years. I do some small activities on the side, so life isn't monotonous, but I don't invest in anything nearly as much as I do my work. I often wonder if I'm missing out on life by not committing to more things. So we're on opposite sides of the same coin. The grass isn't necessarily greener...

It can be very tough to get ahead in science/academia without that laser focus, unfortunately.

Nobody ever mentioned to regret that they have not worked harder. Most people regrets they had not spent more time not working.

That seems to me to be survivor bias: It's cool to claim the one (more quality time), it looks lazy to admit one should have worked harder.

You're not doing anything “right” neither is anyone else. That’s the beauty of life. Make the most of your freedoms and privilege, which it sounds you are and do things you love. Actually, I retract my original statement, it sounds like you’re having a great time. Don't let societal norms think that you have to live in any particular way.

I am having a great time. And my doubts aren't about societal norms; I've directly gone against societal norms at least twice (quitting my first well-paying, well-respected job to start a games company when I was 21, and quitting my most recent well-paying, well-respected job to focus on acting and filmmaking). I'm OK with that.

My doubts come from within. It's more about my own expectations for myself. For example, at my age and with my background, am I a fool for not trying to start a VC backed startup like everyone else? I guess there's a strong FOMO element in my questions.

> am I a fool for not trying to start a VC backed startup?

Fools "start startups" as a goal. Smart folks take opportunities that present themselves, sometimes through a startup.

I'm this way as well and for the longest time was worried I was handicapping myself.

Until I read "How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big"[1] which makes the strongest argument I've seen for having a "talent stack" and combining skills that aren't typically combined. Each skill increases your odds and essentially this boils down to Good + Good > Excellent. You can leverage a combination of average skills to great effect.

The author describes himself as mediocre at art, decent at writing a joke and having business experience... not that noteworthy in and of themselves, but mixed together resulted in Dilbert.

1. https://www.amazon.com/How-Fail-Almost-Everything-Still-eboo...

Was also quoted by Naval Ravikant's podcast with Nivi, based on his Tweet storm by the title of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75tUgLxzE7Q. The entire Podcast can be listened to here; https://nav.al

There are three ways to outcompete your peers with skills:

(1) Be best

(2) Be first

(3) Be the only person in a unique niche (a useful unique niche)

(2) & (3) are far easier than (1).

Thanks for the suggestion, will read.

I've occasionally speculated that in a world with 8 billion people, there exists a job/activity for which I am the absolutely best candidate, because of the perfect match of my very specific mix of skills and the very specific mix of skills required. The tricky bit is finding that match, I suppose :)

I think the most important thing to optimize for is time. Move closer to work, get a roomba, buy a second monitor, etc. For me anything I can do to get extra time is a huge payoff because I'd rather spend my time learning something new, cooking, traveling, or cycling/running.

I recently switched jobs and am moving next month to reduce my commute. I'll have an extra 7 hours a week to do whatever I want and I cannot wait.

Now imagine building an online lifestyle business such that after it’s setup you can spend 0 time on it (for the most part) and still earn enough to pay (reasonable) living expenses.

That’s what I’m driving towards.

is there a list of these kinds of businesses out there? What is your business gonna be?

There are some passive income subreddits where lot of folks are very into this. You might get an idea there.

This is part of the motivation for doing browserless.io for me (though I’m fascinated, still, by the tech and product).

I’ll say that the 0-hour thing is pretty impossible, though you’ll likely not work near 40 hours ever unless you want to. The biggest takeaway I’ve found is that, aside from gaining time, gaining freedom of choice is very liberating. You’ll feel the consequences as well, which I’ve enjoyed overall (even the tedious stuff can pay out in dividends).

It’s definitely worth pursuing, but does come front-loaded with work and a lot of time spent

That sounds fantastic and it's something I aspire to achieve; however this falls into the category of "should I laser-focus on this, or have a better work-life balance?". Part of my difficulty is figuring out the tradeoff of "sacrificing wellbeing today to build a solid foundation" vs "do not postpone enjoying life".

That's a great way to think about it. Thanks for the insight :)

Same age as you, and I'm doing the same thing.

I'm continuing as a software engineer to pay the bills, but I pursue music, games, and at one point in my career was a graphic designer and illustrator (though perhaps not very successfully; I'll get back to it at some point).

I'm about to start learn electronics as I'm interested in building robots and making custom guitar pedals. I don't think I could ever be laser-focussed (95% sure I'm ADHD; used to think I was bipolar but not sure about that diagnosis anymore). Embrace your neurology.

> Embrace your neurology.

Love it :)

Best of luck with your projects, they sound like fun! Electronics and robotics are somewhere on my list, too.

I have said this before, but I will say it again here: I do not personally believe in a “happiness optimization algorithm” The best I think any of us can really do is have a “regret minimization” approach.

Whenever you have a decision to make, ask yourself “What would I regret more if I didn't do in 20, 30 years?

The only caveat is really make sure you think of yourself in the long time horizon: would you regret not saving enough money? Not spending more time with your kids? You get the themes... some things are obvious... others less so.

In general this has worked out well for me, and I have few genuine regrets.

It sounds simple, but in my personal experience, it is the simple things that are both the hardest and most important things to do right.

Very interesting. I was recently reading Happy by Derren Brown (best known as a terrific illusionist), and he talks about the "experiencing self" and the "remembering self". I wonder if it's possible to combine both approaches.

I suggest you read David Epstein's recent book Range: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized...

His basic point is that our culture highly values the Tiger-Woods-style success story, where a person just beavers away at one thing their whole life. But there are a lot of successful people who specialize later or not at all. It definitely made me feel better about my similarly diverse resume, and has given me some good ways to think about what I want to pursue next.

Thanks! Will read.

> I haven't figured out what to optimise for

People are optimization functions. Trying to define it as happiness or whatever other complex formula won't work because it quickly goes meta. Its output becomes just one of your inputs. I know that "doing what you want to do" does not seem like a useful answer to that question, but I think the problem is more in the question than in the answer.

We have these huge computation machines in our heads and we're provided with results like "I want to write a novel" based on earlier inputs and with practically all computation happening subconsciously.

Also, I don't thing you would have such a nice list of accomplishments without a laser focus. By keeping it pointed around the same direction you can achieve more in that area compared to others (because strong flashlight can provide comparable amount of energy to the same point during long enough time), but.. back to the first point (achievements are just another input)

You might be surprised how laser focus can be just as ineffective and dilettantism. It only works when you laser focus in a place that happens to be the right opportunity. I’d venture that most laser focuses just fail on a longer timeline and maybe with less fun along the way.

When I was in my early twenties I had some amazing experiences that prompted me to ask the question, "if I died today, would I be ok with it?". I'm thirty five now and no matter how hard a day has been I have always been able to answer "yes".

Often the journey is hard, really hard, but if you are moving in a direction you are excited about and being true to yourself it's ok.

There is no success, there is no winning, there is only your own comfort when the lights turn off forever.

That's not to say you can't have financial success and career satisfaction. It's just to say that those things won't give you the freedom to die.

I have the same problem. I taught myself marketing, then design, and enough code to throw together decent web pages. I've written a novel, then decided it wasn't good enough and shelved it. I taught myself how to play the guitar, then how to produce music.

This can feel like bragging but I really feel that I haven't really specialized in anything. Although being a marketing consultant has been my livelihood for nearly a decade, I'm somehow not able to call myself a marketer.

I'm turning 30 and beginning to wonder if these grand experiments have been stretched too long. And if they have, what do I focus on? And can I even focus on one thing?

FWIW, most of the interesting stuff I've done, most of what makes me who I am today, have happened after 30 :) Enjoy the ride!

I really like the "can only connect the dots backwards" speech by Steve Jobs. I'm no fanboy, but this one idea resonated with me, and has served me well.

I'm also extremely curious and honestly I'm not sure if it is a curse or a blessing. I dream of projects where I could put all my skills to work but these seem totally inaccessible to me.

It's a cop+out, but I feel pretty sure that (if I understand your curiosity) it's both a curse and a blessing. Those are probably two different ways to frame the feelings you have around your curiosity. I'm sure there are many places where the curiosity serves you well, and as you know, there are also places where it gets in the way.

Whatever ends up being the right amount and kind of curiosity for you, I hope you can meet yourself with love and appreciation. Even if your curiosity brings you deep dissatisfaction because of unfulfilled dreams or the impossibility of knowing it all.

Thank you for your kind words.

I feel the same way. I reckon people like us would make great co founders

I can relate to most of that as well.

Often I wonder if I choose the wrong race on character creation or a few eras too early to spawn. Humans are certainly capable of dabbling in many domains simultaneously, but our current social structures (and limited lifespans) generally require us to specialize in basically one or two fields in order to be significantly successful.

Define 'successful':

- rich?

- famous?

- or would you rather be happy and healthy?

Note that these are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but I know a lot of people and I've yet to see someone that is wealthy or famous that is also really happy but I do know some people that by HN standards would qualify as poor that are super happy, and a good part of that is because they are not chasing the buck or how many people have their autograph.

I’m the same age, with the same questions, and the same uncertainty. So you’re not alone.

Maybe it has to do with the growing realization that we don’t have unlimited time? I’m not sure.

The premise of your movie looks fun. Where can I watch or rent it?

> Maybe it has to do with the growing realization that we don’t have unlimited time?

My GF said something similar. Kind of like how and why midlife crises happen.

> The premise of your movie looks fun. Where can I watch or rent it?

Send me an email :)

It is great to be interested in everything when you’ve won the lottery. The rest of us aren’t so lucky and probably need some focus.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. If through a combination of luck, skill and effort you sell your first startup for tens of millions before you're 30, you probably have a lot more freedom to do whatever you want next. Unfortunately, that's not my story :(

To be honest, a regular life with limits is probably best for our health. Humans are built for mild adversity. Closest to happiness are probably the monks meditating in the mountains wanting for nothing. Conversely why so many rich folks are mentally ill, imho.

#Humblebrag

When did hn become inundated with so many hipster creative types ??? Where is our nerd haven ?!!

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> what to optimise for

(Not spelling or grammar, eh? I kid.) ;-)

Open secret (it's like a cheat code): service to others is the most rewarding.

"optimise" is the correct spelling in some variants of English other than American, like British.

Ah, cheers.

> Not spelling or grammar, eh?

Recently spent 4 years living in London, and I picked up some of the UK spelling.

> Open secret (it's like a cheat code): service to others is the most rewarding.

Very interesting, thanks!

> Recently spent 4 years living in London, and I picked up some of the UK spelling.

Lucky duck! :-)

I want to hide behind my auto-spellchecker (which flagged it as I was replying, which is what prompted me to tease you about it) but really I'm just more ignorant than I like to believe. Good lesson in humility really. Oddly enough, I used to have it set to British English and so used e.g. "colour", etc.

> > Open secret (it's like a cheat code): service to others is the most rewarding.

> Very interesting, thanks!

Cheers! It's like a whole 'nother level to life, like as if you've been playing checkers the whole time and now you're ready for chess. You're at the right age too: you've seen enough of the world to avoid the naivete of youth, but you still have energy and ~20-50+ years to work/play with!