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Comment by jph | Hacker News Reader

Suppose you're Jony Ive, and you've designed so much for Apple-- computers, fonts, even Apple Park-- what would entice you to leave?

I speculate his reason must be to design something massively popular, that so many people in the world touch every day, that blends computers and architecture. And that his reason must a project so big that it can't reasonably fit inside Apple Park, both in terms of physical space and in terms of manufacturing partnerships where the team must be on site.

I speculate he's leaving Apple to design the Apple car.

Replies: 1) If Ive wanted to retire, I'd expect he could; he has mountains of money, and has achieved tremendous success in the marketplace. 2) If Ive were forced out, I'd expect an announcement akin to "will serve as an advisor to CEO Tim Cook", not "founding an agency with Apple as a client". 3) Why leave now? Because Apple just bought a big piece of the car project, Drive.ai.

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> I speculate he's leaving Apple to design the Apple car.

If you think Gruber is correct ("You’re either at Apple or you’re not" rings very true to me), Ive is done with Apple. The completion of Apple Park represents the culmination of his transition to architecture.

The problem becomes where he would go (that is, what he would build) next. He's designed the HQ of one of the biggest companies in the world down to the smallest details. A company so deeply intertwined with his own persona and DNA. Bizarrely, I can see him somewhat disappearing off into the sunset - he might still do some design work when he chooses and have some passion projects, but outside of Apple, it's deadlines, limitless budgets, ability to acquire anything it deems necessary, etc. maybe he's achieved all he wants to?

> Bizarrely

Why Bizarrely? The guy is probably worth millions if not tens of millions. He can probably live a lavish life off of 4% gains for the rest of his life and there is nothing wrong with that.

He owns a (large) private jet. He's worth many tens to hundreds of millions, if not billions. Probably owns significant Apple stock plus average of at least mid six figure salary times decades.

> The guy is probably worth millions if not tens of millions.

The guy is worth north of 400 million.

try hundreds... or at least, he was worth ~130m in 2013.

I would guess hundreds of millions, if not way more. I'm sure his salary was reported as being $30m base + $25m stock per year back in 2011.

I said bizarrely because in these situations the media & general public seem to always think that people like this can't survive without work. The guy is undoubtedly incredibly passionate about design and almost certainly a workaholic. The grandparent is talking about him going on design the future of automobiles - maybe, maybe not. It felt like I was suggesting something against the grain, which was why I prefaced it with "bizarrely".

Probably ~$450M, give or take.

You’re underestimating the luxury industry... there’s plenty of 1%-era willing to pay for an outrageously expensive door handle designed by Ive

> The problem becomes where he would go (that is, what he would build) next.

I think you mean, how would he top this. Why does he need to? Why can't he just ... pull a Woz and kinda tinker around?

>The problem becomes where he would go..

Why does he have to go somewhere? Why not retire? Or do something he like? The problem with designing iPhone or any Apple products, is that he has so much constraint he cant really do much creative thinking any more. You need a new iPhone every year, and new design every few years, with tweaking of design in between. The design has to be able to be manufactured up to 100M unit a year. I suppose they even measure output with units per day. Materials will now have to be recyclable. And they cant cost more than X amount etc.

Then there is burn out I presume? He said he was deeply tired after doing the Apple Watch. That is roughly 3 years after Steve Jobs pass away. Steve was his best friend, and they both lift each other, and I assume Steve would motivate people, challenge each of these genius do something they thought they cant, but somehow all managed. Without their spiritual leader I assume the heavy burden is quite hard to bear. And people would burn out...

May be when Steve was around, working was fun at Apple. Now it is more like work for him. And so he decided to leave and enjoy life doing things he like.

given the expected reaction to apple park by employees and high level VPs (one who reportedly refused to work there), i am sure ive will continue to find “success” in his quest in taking the rectangle and circle to the extreme.

How many companies besides Apple can afford to bring Ive on as a contractor and implement his level of perfection? How many companies will continue investing until they have the perfect color “white”, the new ceramics, or the unibody designs that require completely new tooling?

I worry that Ive will quickly grow frustrated when he realizes that he is a consultant, and at the end of the day, it will be the company that makes the final decision.Will Ive want his name to be associated with an object that was deemed “good enough” by the hiring company?

Understanding the culture of an organization, the strengths and weaknesses of its executives, what the organization is capable as a whole.. that kind of access and connection comes when you are deeply integrated within it. As consultant, you are an external party, an outsider. No matter how good your ideas are, it is up to the client to decide whether or not they will be implemented.

I see Ive as the next Terry Gilliam trying to pitch Brazil! to a set of executives, except Gilliam was able to work with Criterion to ultimately release a 3 version box set: his version, what the executives wanted, and what was released in the theatre. Three completely different movies that highlight the clueless executives and the genius of Gilliam.

Or maybe he spends some time with his family and is a secret force behind the scenes, donating time to universities and design schools, trying to encourage the next generation.

why does he have to work 'for' anyone?

seems to be loaded & well connected enough to easily do several of his own things..

The announcement literally says he will be starting his own design firm, and presumably said firm will perform work on behalf of clients.

with capital, having your own firm doesn't have to mean 'working for', one can just as easily 'work with' or initiate one's own collaborations

How many companies besides Apple can afford to bring Ive on as a contractor and implement his level of perfection?

Being able to say "Designed by Ive" is worth a lot. Companies will find the money just as they find money for Porsche design collaborations, Pininfarina design, collaboration with popstars, sponsorship of sports teams, etc.

I know he's previously talked about wanting his kids to grow up in the UK. Perhaps having finished Apple Park closes one chapter of his life and finally gives him a good enough of a reason to go back to the UK.

I thought he was already splitting his time between London and Cupertino around the time he took on his grander title several years ago. Apple Park was likely a rewarding (new!) endeavor, but their largely iterative product line probably doesn't inspire like it did in earlier years, and he's built a well-oiled machine of a design team to carry the torch (I agree with Gruber on needing a design decider, though). Being halfway around the world from your true home for work with hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank gets old. He's definitley made his dent in the universe.

He's probably semi retiring, so he's setting up a company where he can set his own hours and projects and do whatever he wants while getting a percentage of the revenue.

It will also likely be in the UK.

> and you've designed so much for Apple-- computers, fonts, even Apple Park-- what would entice you to leave?

Designing things for not Apple. Not designing for just 1 brand anymore.

This. Designers and creatives move on eventually because they have to to get the juices flowing again. Even Ive was constrained by "what it means to be Apple." Now, he doesn't have that constraint. And no, I don't think he alone fully got to design what it meant to be Apple.

Just an opinion, but the most capitalized company on earth spending less than $10m on some engineering talent or patents from Drive.ai shouldn't lead one to speculate.

Agree with your line of thinking though. It's more interesting to speculate on what could lure someone like that away, than just assume the mundane.

The biggest thing to entice most people could be an individualistic legacy. Under Apple, Ive's designs are not his own. With a separate entity, Ive probably intends to have products under his name that have massive impact.

A car is significantly more complicated than its design language. It would probably make sense to contract for designing the next Tesla car, which he would not be able to do while at Apple.

Maslow's heirarchy would have been achieved a while back for him. What's the extension of that?

Meaning making, service, philanthrophy.

Or maybe a real spaceship, for which the new Apple HQ was the prototype?

> leaving Apple to design the Apple car

Play that again in your head

If this is a foreign concept to you, research the many companies that Cisco spun off to develop new technology and subsequently spun back in. While not a common pattern it is a recognizable one. It is possible that is what is happening here.

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