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Comment by godelski | Hacker News Reader

To any Mozilla/Firefox developer reading this. I try to convert people to Firefox. The number one reason people switch, by far, is because mobile has add on support. So I say to push this front and center in marketing (I know this is a preview). People are reluctant to switch their desktop browser because chrome pretty much has the same features. But it they switch their mobile browsers they also switch their desktops to take advantage of the full feature suite.

And to anyone trying to convert your friends "mobile supports ublock" is usually all I have to say.

Edit:unblock == uBlock Origin (sorry, on my phone)

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We're certainly aware of how significant ad blocking extensions are. This release required a great quantity of features with only a six month timeline until now.

We already support a very limited set of the WebExtensions API to offer features like Reader Mode. Rest assured that more features will land in the coming months.

If you're a developer and you want to help us, our Github site is at this link. We mark easier issues with a Good First Issue label. We also need help with translations, documentation, and even getting issues filed.

https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix

You don't have to release unfinished software.

It is the nature of open source. I personally prefer it. Anyways, they didn't claim it was unfinished. Projects like these are never "finished".

It's not released yet.

There's no such thing as finished software.

Dead software is finished software.

It's abandoned, not finished.

What a ridiculous claim. Of course there is finished software. If you need a subscration calculator what do you do when it can do substraction? Add addition?

That's how we end up with this disgusting bloated software world we live in. Why do I need a calculator app with food delivery service?

It's almost like it was labeled as a Preview for a reason.

> We're certainly aware of how significant ad blocking extensions are. This release required a great quantity of features with only a six month timeline until now.

A usable night mode e.g. invert the topbar icons and change the white screen you see before the page loads combined with an existing dark theme would be an easy feature to implement and would put it miles ahead of other mobile browsers too. I presently have to use Swift for Samsung to overlay a proper black theme (with white icons etc), but still get bright white when loading pages.

I'm sending this from it right now using the dark theme it comes with, dark bar (at the bottom), it has exactly what you're asking for! I'm really happy about this; dark with bar at bottom is what I've always wanted.

Im an idiot.... just tested it. Beautiful. Its nearly perfect now. Still blasts you with white in some situations but maybe thats due to the coding of the webpage as it loads. Im seriously impressed.

Actually... Id like a black theme as well as just a dark theme. Thanks.

Fullscreen mode would be good. And bookmarks seem like something of a car-crash. They're in there somewhere but it looks like Collections are easier to get to so obviously they're going to get used instead. I don't care what they're called - i just need a way of getting to frequently used urls. And it would be good if I could rename bookmarks/urls/items in collections because currently i'm stuck with whatever the site owner put there which means I end up with 4 links all called "train timetable" instead of "luton-london","london-luton","luton-tring","tring-luton". I would suggest firefox developers use both collections and bookmarks and see how many clicks they have to use, if they have to stretch their thumbs etc, and ask if there's a better way.

And..where to report this sort of thing? There seem to be about 7 different rival official locations.

F11 is full screen unless I'm missing something? It has been better than chrome in full screen for a while now bc if the floating Omni bar

Firefox for Android... Android.

The hard work you guys put in is always appreciated, FF in all its forms has become truly the best browser there is. That being said, how on earth was Reader Mode prioritized above adblocking?

As it stands, adblocking is "post MVP"[1][2]. QR code scanning, however, is somehow part of the MVP. This doesn't make sense to me: there are many apps that launch the default system browser when scanning a URL QR code. You can easily get by without that functionality in the browser.

The comments in this post should be sending you really loud signal: technical users (the type of people who install preview software) don't consider a browser without adblocking MVP. You are drastically underestimating the significance of adblocking extensions.

[1]: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/96 [2]: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/2622 [3]: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/113

When Chrome first came out I stopped using it cause it didnt have adblock. Then when it did it was still crippled and I realized Google is in the Ad business so I never used Chrome since. This is very correct adblocking is a necessity, if they even include a Mozilla Adblocking DNS server for the browser thats fine to me. As long as I dont see ads.

I wont give up on Firefox anytime soon. I would love to see some serious competitors though.

I don't want my browser ignoring my DNS settings!

I would assume it would be opt-in if they went with this.

Everyone switched to ublock once adblock+ starting taking payments to not block certain ads.

Most people who care about adblocking will choose whatever browser suppoerts adblocking over anything else honestly.

I'm not sure if it's prioritization so much as just Reader mode being easier because it doesn't need that much from the extension API. Adblockers need to do more browser-level things like intercept HTTP requests, while Reader mode can be done with just DOM/CSS manipulation.

Also, reader mode is the only way non-mobile websites are readable on my phone. I left chrome on my phone for it (now I use Firefox Focus as my primary mobile browser for the vastly better privacy, but very much miss that it seems to have no reader mode). If this has reader mode I am absolutely going to use it as my backup for when Focus breaks a site over Chrome.

When it came out I considered reader mode a killer feature, and coincidentally it also tends to remove the ads. Or at least the ones not embedded in an article, which is good enough for me as long as they remain stationary.

I understand where you're coming from, but I honestly find Firefox Preview's built-in tracking protection blocks enough ads on its own. I'd encourage you to give it a shot. (Though, to reassure you: proper adblocking is on the roadmap.)

On the other hand, QR code scanning is necessary for a good Firefox Sync setup experience, and that genuinely seems crucial to the MVP: we don't want your data stranded on one device unless that's explicitly what you want.

Any idea why after sync I can see history from my desktop browser, but no bookmarks? There are only 3 clean folders on Firefox Preview.

It looks like that should have been resolved a month ago with build 1.0.1921 (https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/2252)... are you sure your bookmarks are set to sync (check in about:preferences on desktop)? If so, try forcing a new sync Firefox Preview by hitting Settings -> Sync -> Sync Now.

Yes, the only thing I'm not syncing are passwords. Are those 3 folders under "Desktop Bookmarks" visible in clean install before syncing? https://imgur.com/q1W7GgZ Maybe it's synced somehow only partially? All those folders are empty. And also on my desktop browser I can't see bookmarks I created in FP. I tried hitting "Sync Now" multiple times since yesterday, it always looks like it's working, after a second there's "Last synced: 0 minutes ago"

And I don't see FP under devices in https://accounts.firefox.com/settings/clients?service=sync&c....

for passwords you can just use the firefox lockwise app

I removed FP and installed it again, this time with pairing through QR code, it again looks like it's working perfectly, but I can't see bookmarks, only history. And there is no mobile session under devices in https://accounts.firefox.com/

That's upsetting. Please do report bugs. We do fix them. Bookmark sync had been working in Nightly for weeks, so I'm really surprised. I imagine it's hitting some kind of exception on your bookmarks.

Done https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/3774 :)

Not just ad blocking extensions though. Being able to run Dark Reader and Stylus on my phone is great. I appreciate it a lot, thanks

Ad blocking is the only reason I use Firefox mobile.

It's very fast. But there's no full screen option, which is surprising.

> We're certainly aware of how significant ad blocking extensions are. This release required a great quantity of features with only a six month timeline until now.

It is always soft of amusing to watch companies make all kinds of unforced errors with their products because the managers feel that they know much better than the users of the product what should be important to users. They fail all the time just to have someone else come in and say "Oh, those people, they were just holding the instructions wrong" and go repeating the same mistake.

So far in this ( software + hardware space ) there has been exactly one company that nailed it. The company is called Apple and the product is called iPhone. Since that point on Apple has not introduced anything that was not a direct play on "Our users want X, we are going to give them X, maybe with a bit of a twist"

The users are telling you that the USP of Firefox is ad blocking. If your PM says it is something else, you should replace the PM. That should be your singular focus. Everything else is secondary.

I agree with you 100% both about ad blocking being essential and product managers being tone deaf to user's priorities, however, I don't see Apple as any paragon in this regard.

> Apple has not introduced anything that was not a direct play on "Our users want X, we are going to give them X, maybe with a bit of a twist"

Unless you want plug-ins in a mobile browser or a headphone jack or ... well, too many things to list really. Apple mobile/tablet software experiences are some of the worst offenders of "We'll tell you how you should want it and if you don't agree, you're just wrong and we're right."

Strongly seconding. The one and only reason I bothered to switch from Chrome to Firefox on Android was because I could install uBlock Origin on it. It's also the reason I installed Firefox on my wife's smartphone, and why I keep recommending it to friends and family members.

(Of course, some time later I realized what "extensions enabled" truly means, and started using other extensions I have enabled on my desktop browser too :).)

kiwi browser,based on Chromium also supports for Chrome browser extensions now.

I moved to firefox on mobile explicitly because the context menu has options I use. Google Chrome dropped almost all the options, and annoyed me to know end. IMO Mozilla is the only option to keep the web free. Google won't even remotely have your interests even in mind for the changes they make.

Also, they should integrate Firefox Preview into F-Droid if they are serious about privacy/freedom.

^ THIS.

Please listen Mozilla. Firefox is the only browser that works as intended for me, on mobile. Cookie AutoDelete + uBlock Origin and Dark Reader. What a blessing.

Hmm.

Using Firefox because it has a particular technological feature is a political choice. That political stance would lead users to turn to other browsers as fast as tech is added or removed.

I use Firefox for political reasons and for what it stands.

Which means that when Firefox gets worse I still use it and support what it stands for.

It's very Stallmanesque and let it be clear I am not saying the choice to favour superior tech over ethic concerns is wrong. It's just a different choice.

That's what I tell people when talking about Signal and messenger, Chrome and Firefox.

Also, I don't think Mozilla is a white knight and in my opinion they fucked up some good things over the years (tech or ethic). But the good still largely surpasses the bad.

It's great that you have political reasons to use Firefox. But to be most effective, you have to recognize that most other users won't care about it that strongly, so you have to use arguments that matter to them in a practical way.

This way, you can switch your acquaintances to use Firefox, and they'll stay with it by inertia. I'd say that's a win-win.

> It's great that you have political reasons to use Firefox.

I don't think I am making myself clear. Everyone has a cultural and political profile that dictates some choices and it doesn't matter if they acknowledge it or not.

> But to be most effective, you have to recognize that most other users won't care about it that strongly, so you have to use arguments that matter to them in a practical way.

Oh, but the privacy and anti-ad argument is a strong political argument that will outlive the tech of the day.

> and they'll stay with it by inertia.

And if Mozilla pulls a google and becomes evil, that inertia is now a problem you have to overcome on other grounds than the tech.

It's an easy and short term win-win until the next HN article "ff slower than chrome in test XYZ, jump ships everyone !".

> Oh, but the privacy and anti-ad argument is a strong political argument that will outlive the tech of the day.

Right, but that doesn't matter an inch if you can't use it to convince people to switch to a FLOSS browser.

> It's an easy and short term win-win until the next HN article "ff slower than chrome in test XYZ, jump ships everyone !".

And then it's time to make political arguments, when they're already using Firefox, are accustomed to it and have all its configurations and workflows in this tool. This way you use the powerful force of inertia in your favor, instead of fighting it.

I wish iOS version had addons to block ads. (I know Apple doesn't allow that) I still use it because of the synchronization and because Firefox is awesome. :)

iOS Firefox is not really Firefox. It's a Safari skin, because Apple doesn't like competition.

Not that I want to defend them, but it does have a nice side effect that web developers must run their sites in some browser other than Chrome (even if they ignore Firefox).

So much of this. Too bad many people who love Firefox don't get how important that Apple decision is for survival for non-Chromium browsers..

Safari is a webkit browser, off of which Chromium/Blink is a fork. So, it's not really a point in favor of real diversity on the web.

There have been enough divergences between Webkit and Blink that I wouldn't consider them the same engine anymore, just like I wouldn't consider WebKit and KHTML/KJS to be the same.

non-chromium browsers only matter if the owner in question actually has any incentive to give users more control. Apple exercises even tighter control over their software than Google.

Firefox matters not because it's "not chromium" but because it's firefox, a non-profit dedicated to an open web.

Firefox matters because they're dedicated to an open web, but Firefox is usable by the general public because web developers are forced to support multiple engines if they want to work on iOS. These are two different things and both are important.

(Note: I've been running Gecko based browsers almost since the beginning. I guess in those days it was probably easier to use a browser that isn't perfectly supported, but I'd probably do it again if it came to it. But I can recommend Firefox to whoever I want, since it works on every site except Linked In. I couldn't do that if it only worked well on one in two or three or four sites.)

Well Apple has a built in content blocking framework for iOS. Chrome doesn’t....

Do you have a link to back this up?

Its not actually safari, but it is webkit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_for_iOS

> Unlike Firefox on Android, Firefox for iOS does not support browser add-ons. Additionally, it uses Apple's Webkit rendering engine, rather than Mozilla's Gecko.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48382150/do-all-browsers...

True! Especially on the phone it bothers me terribly!

iOS has native support for ad blockers.

iOS has native support for a subset of the rules in blockers like uBlock Origin.

FireFox Focus also functions as an excellent ad blocker for iOS Safari.

Then go to any news site and show them reader mode. It's an irresistible one-two punch.

I also think they should fix zooming and un-zooming with the Mac trackpad for desktop Firefox. I had someone switch and they were so used to zooming in using the trackpad, they couldn't stay on Firefox. There is a 3rd party extension that fixes this, but should it not be built-in?

Actively being worked on at the moment.

I feel like this is a running joke at this point. I've been waiting on this since getting a mbp in 2003. I swear it has been under development the whole time. Or, at worse, blocked by rendering engine updates. People always seem hopeful the next major rendering update will make it usable.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789906

Bug opened seven years ago. It looks like the only real updates in the last year are a non-dev advocating for it.

Good to hear it's getting some attention behind the scenes. I'm a little sad the driving factor is probably just mobile. Given that it already seems to work in the mobile Firefox Preview, apparently using gecko, it gives me a little hope we may one day see this on the desktop.

I think at this point all the mac issues can only be solved if someone does a kickstarter specifically for mac and hires a bunch of developers and contributes the resulting code to upstream.

Do you have a link for where this is being worked on?

Thank you Mozilla team for making this great browser! I am a happy user since it was first released. Super happy with how fast the browser is now. I think Firefox always is ahead with great features and better UX. (Lazy tab loading, sticky tabs, containers, no video autoplay, to name a few) Also plugin support on mobile is how I converted several chrome users :)

I hope "collections" will come to the desktop too. Are there plans?

I use firefox on desktop. But on mobile one major blocker for me is that Google assistant does not work with firefox browser on android.

How do you mean? I wasn't aware the assistant really did anything with Chrome. Certainly it renders some search results using the android webview. But otherwise, it launches any pages you click in whatever browser you want. Inside of Chrome, what assistant features are there? The voice recognition is part of the keyboard so all apps have that. Genuinely not sure what you're referring to.

Hmm I see. I think I was getting confused since I searched for browser app in settings and ended up setting browser app as well as Voice and Assist app as Firefox as they are in the same submenu.

If I choose Voice and Assist app as Firefox instead of Google then active edge, Ok Google does not work. May be I could just try setting browser app to firefox.

Let me give this combination a try for a few days. Browser is firefox and assist app is google which as you say still renders some links in android webview.

Yeah, the assist app and default browser aren't really related settings.

"Assist app" settings determines which app can respond to assistant invocations (ok google, long press home, squeezing the phone...) and grants special assistant privileges to app.

Default browser is another setting :)

Also the news on the Google app (the most easily accessible one with a left swipe), also open in I guess Android Web View. I use my mobile browser mostly for news articles and less often for opening other websites. Will still end up using Chrome like stuff I guess.

Also please reduce the amount of different available versions to 2 max! The current release, and the preview in Beta channel.

it doesn't have pull down to refresh and other browsers like Edge,Bromite, Brave or Kiwi have ad blocker out of box

Tried to Google it, what is mobile supports unblock?

He almost certainly means uBlock Origin.

Correct! And thanks, I fixed it.

Maybe he/she meant "ublock"?

It supports extensions in general, specifically one of the best ad blockers, ublock origin.

This is precisely why I use Firefox.

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