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Comment by sidlls | Hacker News Reader

What about distracted pedestrians? I've had to swerve into car lanes from the bike lane almost every day this last week because some pedestrian with his face buried in a phone absent-mindedly steps off the curb against the light. What fraction of the increase is attributable to that?

When I drove a car I used to sympathize with both cyclists and pedestrians. Now that I've been commuting and frequently running errands by bicycle for a couple of years my sympathy has waned significantly due the behavior I observe in my fellow cyclists and pedestrians.

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"(Europeans have high rates of car ownership and as many smart phones as Americans)

[..] at the same time pedestrian deaths have been soaring the US, they’ve been dropping steadily in Europe."

Does this adequately control for smart-phone-distraction? Maybe not if Europeans have social or legal elements ruling out smartphone use in the streets.

Do you really think Europe has laws to prevent pedestrians using their phone outside?

The fact is that I just don't know. But it is plausible that local jurisdictions could create and enforce restrictions on pedestrians being distracted while crossing roads. Here in the US we have cities with bans on phone use while driving or cycling, so why couldn't similar restrictions be placed on pedestrians while crossing roads?

Well, there are no such restrictions anywhere in Europe AFAIK.

"I drive, I ride my bike, and I walk places, but when I do one, I hate the other two"

I think this is the essential problem. We don't know how to collaborate with one another as we always have just the one role...

I joke: "The great thing about cyclists is that they unite motorcyclist and drivers."

I walk and drive as part of my commute. When I'm walking I swear I'm the only person who doesn't wear headphones, and this is a very busy urban area with lots of cars, people, and narrow streets. I would imagine it's the same in Europe though, what do I know?

I was in Europe recently. Didn't observe too many with headphones in while crossing streets or on the metro.

Another uniquely American thing I've witnessed is people not even bothering to look when crossing the street because of whatever video they're watching on their phone.

Unfortunately not unique. I've seen plenty of morons doing that here in Australia as well.

Covering both ears in a car or on a bike is prohibited in most states, but rarely enforced. However getting such noted on the accident report can establish negligence in a civil action.

Do these tend to refer to audio players in particular, or to any ear covering? I'm curious (1) whether that applies to balaclavas for warmth in the winter and (2) whether an earplug in my left ear would be allowed. As a daily biker, it's astounding how deafening trucks/motorcycles can be.

It isn't clear that headphones make pedestrians/cyclists less safe.Traffic noise in busy urban areas would make it unlikely that headphones would mask any useful auditory information.

I even heard of one study that concluded that the music actually increased awareness and focus.

Higher traffic noise makes it more likely that the one engine or horn that you need to hear will be masked by all the others. Any kind of noise, including the music people play through their headphones, will have that effect. Headphones reduce the amount of ambient sound one hears, they interfere with interpretation (e.g. localization of sound), and they even interfere with response to even non-auditory stimuli. People wear headphones all day in open offices precisely because they decrease awareness of the environment. Please follow some of the references in the introduction of this document to learn more.

https://smartech.gatech.edu/bitstream/handle/1853/59823/MAY-...

"Not clear" indeed. It just doesn't get much clearer.

I don't think that I am the one that has to do the work to disprove my own contention... :) You have to make your own point and provide either actual arguments or actual references. You can't just point to a semi-random list of references.

I wear headphones when I walk and I haven't been hit yet. I still look both ways before and during crossing a street.

It's a normal occurrence in the cities I've lived in that people who are not distracted just walk in front of moving traffic, despite there being a green light, expecting cars to stop, which they do. Frequently they are partially or completely turned away from the oncoming traffic. They may be crossing at a crosswalk or not.

I don't know if this is becoming more common, but it's been on my mind more in recent years and I think it has influenced me a little bit as a pedestrian to step in front of cars like I don't care when I do have the right of way. Whether or not I am entitled to, I imagine it increases my risk.

So I think people should definitely consider that pedestrians are changing and not just drivers.

How do you explain the difference with Europe? European pedestrians presumably are just as likely to be on their mobile phones...

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/06/21/soaring-pedestrian-de...

Thank you for pointing this out. Head phones are a huge problem with this, as well. I have seen a stupid number of stupid pedestrians walking or running with earbuds in, or hunched over on phones, or some such.

I often wear headphones when I walk, I just look where I'm going.

Do you also contend that people with hearing impairment should not be walking?

No, and please don't straw-man my argument. I contend that those who can avoid such risk ought to, because each pedestrian who does so has an increased risk of getting hit.

To analogize, I believe you ought to avoid unnecessary medical treatments, because each presents some kind of risk. If, however, you need treatment, I suggest you receive it (though it will carry a risk). By the same token, if you can walk carefully and observe the world around you, you ought to. If you need to walk and cannot see, it's fine to just accept that certain things carry risk.

Hearing is arguably more useful in many situations, as it is omnidirectional. I can hear a car coming from behind me; I likely cannot see it.

How much chance do you think you'd have of getting out of the way of an out-of-control car coming from behind that you couldn't see but you say that you'd hear?

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